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that's audible podcast.com slash power

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cast and now on with the show

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this is a very unusual show normally

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when I talk to my guests they are

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somewhere else sometimes on this planet

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we talk to them with a telephone we talk

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to them with Skype okay but we very

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rarely have the guests in here only on

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two previous occasions one with Tim

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Beckley the one the only Tim Beck we

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thank God he's the only Tim Beck idea

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that's right

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the one and only Tim Beck was here and

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then we had John Burroughs one of the oh

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yeah I know right

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and that's Antonio who næss by the way

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who's a longtime friend who I knew from

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New York City and it turns out he's one

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of the really extraordinary guiding

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lights in the UFO field longtime

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researcher we're gonna go into that of

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course our co-host this week is also

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sitting here yeah check that up with a

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Western hat yeah that's right in a

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dinosaur fossil bolo don't call me a

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dinosaur we sit here we do a serious

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radio show the power cast is one of the

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most serious shows out there we are not

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just in it for the buck although we

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don't mind making a couple on that way

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he knows sure we're not in it just for

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the buck but you know we try to be

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serious and then Chris walks in here

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with a hat and he looks he's trying to

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be like Indiana Jones or something no

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it's a dinosaur fossil bolo I'm wearing

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it around my neck so that if you need to

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you can grab it and squeeze later well

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antonio yes team what attracted you to

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the UFO mystery well you know I

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originally come from Chile and I came to

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this country in 1975 actually I was born

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in in New York because my dad used to

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work at the UN and when things got a

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little rough in Chile you know with the

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military dictatorship Pinochet back in

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73 I figured that since I was born in

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the States

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I had the opportunity of becoming an

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American and the Chilean passport was

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terrible at back then an American

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passport was good so I decided to come

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and that's a question to if you're born

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in America you're an American no matter

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what yes okay I guess this is a big

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issue now with the illegals or whatever

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but but you know in my case was

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different so I came in 75 I was a

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science journalist in in Chile before

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coming here I was writing for like a

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weekly magazine doing the science column

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and I wasn't interested in UFOs in the

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least well actually I had read one book

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I was open-minded about the paranormal I

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had written some stories about

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parapsychology and you know archeology

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Easter Island things like that so I come

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here and by 1977 I was living in New

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York City and I happened to see this was

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like a series of coincidences or

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synchronicities that happen my brother

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had sent me this newspaper clipping

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about the and you probably might have

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heard of this case it's quite famous the

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Corporal about this case was an army

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patrol in Chile where the guy had sort

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of instead of a missing time a gaining

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time where he encountered the UFO and

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then after that he had like a five-day

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growth on his beard he basically spent

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five days doing something but it was

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only a few minutes of course where are

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the witnesses or the other witnesses

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didn't go into the UFO so they didn't

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experience that but they saw the

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Corporal their leader disappearing into

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towards the object it was at night so

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they couldn't see it that clear well to

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make the story short I published an

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article about it and because the same

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day that

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got the newspaper clippings I happen to

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see on the newsstand which was called

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the gem spa with the famous East Village

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newsstand in 2nd Avenue and 8th Street

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and I happen to see an alternative

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newspaper called the New York Daily

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Planet which was published by Mike

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Luckman which would probably heard of

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the guy that did a book called alien

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rock more recently so anyway I figured I

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was trying to make it in this country as

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a journalist I had no connections no

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money no nothing in but this was an

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alternative paper a figure here I don't

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need you know I can just walk in and

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probably you know a little take maybe

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they'll take my arty you figure they

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have no standards yeah correctly yeah I

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mean well was an alternative paper I

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need to call you know my cousin who knew

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the owner or something like that have to

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present the resume ok it was worth a

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shot anyway so I walked in and sure

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enough the guy Mike was interested and

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published my article and that's really

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how I got started so that was in 1977

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now this was a great exciting period

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which pronounced like Asian history for

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most people but within a year or so you

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had a lot of things going on you had the

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UFO hearing of the United Nations in

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1978 which became the first UFO event I

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ever attended so I started in high class

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you know I'm a high-neck ballet and all

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at once

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went downhill from there yeah well what

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do you mean the quick that's correct

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after they overthrew prime minister Gary

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the thing was over he went back we came

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along well yeah I met him back be around

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that period I met mostly home you know

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and eventually I met keel and Hopkins

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and you know everybody that was in New

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York City and then I start writing for

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the magazines the pulp magazines like

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you a full report and eventually I made

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it to your full report my first one and

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I was so proud of it it was ideal CEO

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for magazine maybe you remember it or

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not as a problem it's similar to the

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other one

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we're taking a journey through history

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ladies and gentlemen I remember these

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magazines if you remember there are

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actually several

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magazines dealing with the subject of

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UFOs it wasn't just UFO magazine a

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certain other new magazine will mention

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shortly it was much of them yeah and

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well eventually you know I became

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acquainted with the various view of

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organizations I joined some of them like

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MUFON and so on you know I went on to

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travel and give lectures and so on and

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then more recently of course I got hired

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by this new company here in in the

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Phoenix area open mines production and

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that's how I ended up in the West I had

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never lived in the West that was always

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an East Coast person but as a culture

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shock yeah it is a little bit of course

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I didn't come directly from New York I

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did livable for about three years in

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Northern Virginia and they watch in DC

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area so that was kind of the

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decompression period you know because it

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was different from New York but it's

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still a East well talking about that

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magazine later on now that you come to

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specialize in a particular aspect of

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researching UFOs initially my sort of

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expertise it was only for the reason

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because I was a I was originally from

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South America so I could read this

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language so my lot of my first articles

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were about South American UFO cases only

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because like I said I could read the

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newspaper reports and stuff from from

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Chile or Argentina whatever and that's

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my first articles were usually on that

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but then as I became more and more

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involved eventually I branched into all

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kinds of types of phenomena you know

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within the UFO and I eventually I became

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much more international I worked in

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Japan I work for Japanese magazine in

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the 1990s I was one of the co-authors of

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the UFO briefing document this which was

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part of their Lords rockefeller right I

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wanted to ask you also how you came to

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write that how Laurance Rockefeller come

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to Commission this kind of study well

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Lawrence Rockefeller had a fascination

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with all these the paranormal in general

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and he started believing the 80s

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financing a lot of research mostly

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through Scott Jones who had an outfit

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called the human potential Foundation in

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the Washington DC area and Scott Jones

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had

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aide to Senator Claiborne Pell who was

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an important political figure from

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senator from Rhode Island and so this

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was the beginning I guess for

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Rockefeller so initially he was mostly

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doing parapsychology research but as you

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know all these phenomenons are somewhat

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related and eventually it shifted into

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the area of UFOs there was a period in

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the early 90s when Scott Jones an

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attorney who crystals called Henry

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diamond who was working for Rockefeller

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and mr. Rockefeller himself were very

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involved in lobbying the the White House

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and specifically the science advisor at

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the White House whose name right now I

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forgot but Gibbons

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I think it's John Gibbons and they had

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some meetings and the idea was to get

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the Clinton people to release a lot of

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documents and mostly what at the time

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people were looking for was the Roswell

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case but that got diffused when the

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government said yeah we're gonna release

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a roswell case and but that turned out

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to be the Mogul explanation i was the

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investigation and the ocean du jour yeah

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right okay so the case closed right so

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then what happened is then Rockefeller

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figured that okay that Avenue was spent

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so nothing else was coming from there so

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he decided to shift gears and to

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Commission his own report among many

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other things because he was also giving

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money to various researchers and this

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was coordinated by Murray Galbreath who

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was no better known as Bootsy who's not

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your run-of-the-mill who follow gist she

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was the why name like that I wouldn't

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think well she was a socialite she was

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the wife of the former ambassador of the

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United States to France during the

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Reagan administration who was also a

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cousin I believe of John Kenneth

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Galbraith the Nobel price economist who

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had also been an ambassador during

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Kennedy obviously this lady was very

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well-connected and she became the

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coordinator of this project initially I

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wasn't involved in the early stages

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initially they went to Don Berliner

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would you probably know by name who

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was a known member of NICAP in aviation

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journalists from the Washington DC area

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and he wrote the original draft of the

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seal for briefing document which was

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basically a very sober document case

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histories and it had like some and

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general introduction and all that but

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when they received the draft they liked

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the format and the idea the general

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format of the document but they it was

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obvious that the document needed to be

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updated expanded improved and that's

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where I was brought in by a lady who

275
00:11:46,050 --> 00:11:43,180
recently passed away was a wonderful

276
00:11:47,070 --> 00:11:46,060
person sandy right I believe that Chris

277
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:47,080
might have met her too

278
00:11:52,740 --> 00:11:49,930
she was had a small foundation called

279
00:11:55,860 --> 00:11:52,750
the BSW foundation it's a very generous

280
00:11:58,350 --> 00:11:55,870
person she helped a lot of people she

281
00:12:01,620 --> 00:11:58,360
just passed away of cancer and last

282
00:12:03,980 --> 00:12:01,630
December and so I was brought in I was

283
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:03,990
working for the japanese for japanese

284
00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:06,730
project at the time but if the timing

285
00:12:11,090 --> 00:12:08,830
was perfect just as a japanese project

286
00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:11,100
was facing out i got hired by the

287
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:13,570
Rockefeller people to work on this and

288
00:12:17,790 --> 00:12:15,850
we even had an office on Madison Avenue

289
00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:17,800
and everything and I worked there I

290
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:19,570
improved the the document I ended up

291
00:12:23,010 --> 00:12:20,050
writing

292
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:23,020
half of it basically they had you see a

293
00:12:29,460 --> 00:12:26,050
lot of cases from France and Belgium in

294
00:12:31,290 --> 00:12:29,470
Brazil but the promised dawn like most

295
00:12:33,150 --> 00:12:31,300
Americans didn't know foreign languages

296
00:12:36,210 --> 00:12:33,160
so he couldn't console them

297
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:36,220
the firsthand sources he had to filter

298
00:12:39,630 --> 00:12:37,450
it through the move from Journal or

299
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:39,640
something as I said we can publish about

300
00:12:43,290 --> 00:12:41,920
the Belgium wave and we're quoting the

301
00:12:45,870 --> 00:12:43,300
movement journal leaving these people

302
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:45,880
publishing you know 500 volume you know

303
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:47,920
about 500 page volumes about it you know

304
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:50,800
and they all kinds of military documents

305
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:52,570
so sure and they said go ahead and

306
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:54,850
rewrite whatever you need so we left

307
00:13:00,030 --> 00:12:56,800
some of the American cases Socorro and

308
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:00,040
the Washington DC 52 flap with that can

309
00:13:03,810 --> 00:13:01,330
if I know you know because obviously

310
00:13:05,460 --> 00:13:03,820
Berliner knew that very well and I think

311
00:13:07,650 --> 00:13:05,470
concentrate on a lot of the foreign

312
00:13:09,930 --> 00:13:07,660
cases and that's how I ended up working

313
00:13:12,630 --> 00:13:09,940
on that project which was concluded in

314
00:13:14,030 --> 00:13:12,640
December of 95 and released to the

315
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:14,040
public and

316
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:15,690
not to the public they was originally

317
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:18,930
only to be sent to VIPs only a thousand

318
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:20,610
copies were printed of the original

319
00:13:25,939 --> 00:13:23,040
reporting eventually it came out in as a

320
00:13:27,740 --> 00:13:25,949
paperback which was a deal arranged by

321
00:13:33,260 --> 00:13:27,750
Whitley Strieber and that was in the

322
00:13:38,449 --> 00:13:35,590
[Music]

323
00:13:40,699 --> 00:13:38,459
as you know the power cast is brought to

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our forums where you can talk to fellow

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listeners just go to the para cast comm

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and click on the forum links that's the

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361
00:15:31,870 --> 00:15:30,000
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362
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:31,880
see you online

363
00:15:40,370 --> 00:15:37,680
hi a pope named to the paragon Antonio

364
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:40,380
Honus joins us our co-host is Chris

365
00:15:43,790 --> 00:15:41,010
O'Brien

366
00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:43,800
unlike most other parent cast episodes

367
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:45,750
we're all in the same studio together

368
00:15:50,660 --> 00:15:47,970
we're all just laughing at each other

369
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:50,670
because we look a lot worse than we

370
00:15:56,060 --> 00:15:52,650
thought we'd look right Chris speak for

371
00:15:58,130 --> 00:15:56,070
yourself Chris I don't have a rejoinder

372
00:16:01,220 --> 00:15:58,140
for that one G you can ask a question of

373
00:16:05,540 --> 00:16:01,230
our esteemed guests like I will you were

374
00:16:07,580 --> 00:16:05,550
able to interact with rockefeller as I

375
00:16:09,740 --> 00:16:07,590
was actually how did you find him I mean

376
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:09,750
in terms of how up-to-speed he was know

377
00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:11,730
as a matter of fact I unfortunately I

378
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:13,440
never met and Laurance Rockefeller

379
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:15,690
personally I I wanted to and I should

380
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:17,970
have pushed to Bootsy but then once the

381
00:16:21,830 --> 00:16:19,650
project was finished the office was

382
00:16:24,020 --> 00:16:21,840
closed and I lost my window of

383
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:24,030
opportunity so basically there was no

384
00:16:28,850 --> 00:16:25,890
follow-up it basically financed the

385
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:28,860
project it was sort of a follow up but

386
00:16:33,530 --> 00:16:31,170
different what happened is after our our

387
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:33,540
report was finished it was sent to

388
00:16:38,660 --> 00:16:36,000
various important people but

389
00:16:40,610 --> 00:16:38,670
unfortunately and this was not really

390
00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:40,620
Rockefellers fault it was way it was

391
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:41,940
given to fuller

392
00:16:47,630 --> 00:16:44,880
which was a consortium of the three main

393
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:47,640
UFO groups MUFON Koufos and the fine for

394
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:50,310
UFO research and they were supposed to

395
00:16:54,980 --> 00:16:53,250
distribute it but there was no lobbying

396
00:16:56,050 --> 00:16:54,990
I mean if they spent so much resources

397
00:16:57,730 --> 00:16:56,060
in doing this rip

398
00:17:00,280 --> 00:16:57,740
they should have they should have been a

399
00:17:04,060 --> 00:17:00,290
much more aggressive distribution but

400
00:17:07,450 --> 00:17:04,070
they didn't and so it kind of Peter away

401
00:17:09,700 --> 00:17:07,460
it had a couple of effects yeah i rana

402
00:17:12,010 --> 00:17:09,710
clean on in this country one was in

403
00:17:14,170 --> 00:17:12,020
france because obviously marie Galbreath

404
00:17:16,180 --> 00:17:14,180
knew everybody in france she had been

405
00:17:18,490 --> 00:17:16,190
the ambassador's wife she had very good

406
00:17:20,350 --> 00:17:18,500
connections and a lot of copies were

407
00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:20,360
saying we fact we got we would see

408
00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:22,370
material from their japan the french

409
00:17:27,220 --> 00:17:25,070
space agency original material because

410
00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:27,230
she knew these people which we use in

411
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:28,310
their transient provence

412
00:17:35,260 --> 00:17:32,960
landing case chapter dad leg eventually

413
00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:35,270
in france to a similar report which is

414
00:17:39,610 --> 00:17:37,310
was somewhat controversial because this

415
00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:39,620
was written by a lot of retired generals

416
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:41,360
and that was known as the committee

417
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:43,130
report and we are quoted in the

418
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:44,810
committee report they give all the

419
00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:47,210
accolades to marigo brief and barely

420
00:17:50,380 --> 00:17:48,740
mentioned except in the footnotes

421
00:17:51,910 --> 00:17:50,390
because they had to say you don't have

422
00:17:54,730 --> 00:17:51,920
the citation of the book all right

423
00:17:57,010 --> 00:17:54,740
you're paid to write half the book but

424
00:17:58,570 --> 00:17:57,020
to them you're just a footnote in commit

425
00:18:00,850 --> 00:17:58,580
that own incoming okay

426
00:18:03,820 --> 00:18:00,860
well because they knew her and she was a

427
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:03,830
social fisher so even though she really

428
00:18:07,870 --> 00:18:05,930
didn't write much of it she quoted she

429
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:07,880
was like the editor of our report she

430
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:10,090
coordinated and she had the last word on

431
00:18:15,310 --> 00:18:13,010
everything that went in did you have any

432
00:18:17,890 --> 00:18:15,320
conclusions reached as to what ufos are

433
00:18:20,110 --> 00:18:17,900
or was it just a bunch of case histories

434
00:18:21,910 --> 00:18:20,120
it was mostly a bunch of case histories

435
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:21,920
there was an introduction or an

436
00:18:26,590 --> 00:18:24,080
executive part of the report which was

437
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:26,600
written by him berliner were basically

438
00:18:31,630 --> 00:18:29,570
he's of the et you know inclination so

439
00:18:34,060 --> 00:18:31,640
but he was put in a in a sort of a

440
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:34,070
conservative way you know in for sure

441
00:18:38,620 --> 00:18:36,170
with aliens but basically what he tried

442
00:18:40,570 --> 00:18:38,630
to prove is that these things are real

443
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:40,580
they're intense there's intelligence

444
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:42,970
behind it and there's some kind of

445
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,890
physical evidence in that you know the

446
00:18:49,870 --> 00:18:47,360
the thing needs to be taken seriously

447
00:18:51,580 --> 00:18:49,880
but there was not too much it was sort

448
00:18:53,620 --> 00:18:51,590
of a 101 you know you want to know

449
00:18:55,180 --> 00:18:53,630
what's the evidence for UFOs

450
00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:55,190
like i said it was supposed to be sent

451
00:19:00,160 --> 00:18:57,530
to VIP senators people that don't have

452
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:00,170
time to be going on the web looking for

453
00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:02,930
we are you for cases so we already did

454
00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:05,220
clean up the job for them and game

455
00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:07,350
you know here the main cases but there

456
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:09,900
was no much follow up except that the in

457
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:12,570
Rockefeller went on and funded another

458
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:15,210
project and this was the Sturrock

459
00:19:19,610 --> 00:19:17,490
conference that took place in poor

460
00:19:21,710 --> 00:19:19,620
canticle hills where they brought a lot

461
00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:21,720
of scientists both from Europe and the

462
00:19:27,529 --> 00:19:25,520
US and eventually Peterik who's

463
00:19:29,779 --> 00:19:27,539
astrophysicist who was the head of the

464
00:19:31,870 --> 00:19:29,789
Society of scientific exploration at

465
00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:31,880
that time came up with a pretty

466
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:34,950
significant book called a UFO enigma I

467
00:19:39,789 --> 00:19:37,110
think which is basically the Proceedings

468
00:19:42,350 --> 00:19:39,799
of this conference in Rockefeller was so

469
00:19:44,539 --> 00:19:42,360
enthusiastic about this this particular

470
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:44,549
project that he wrote the foreword in

471
00:19:49,580 --> 00:19:47,130
his name only let's say writing of

472
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:49,590
Rockefeller on UFOs publicly published

473
00:19:53,330 --> 00:19:51,690
and that was a forward to the stoic

474
00:19:55,370 --> 00:19:53,340
report in our case no he didn't write

475
00:19:56,930 --> 00:19:55,380
the foreword by his name appears in the

476
00:19:58,460 --> 00:19:56,940
acknowledgement so it was known that he

477
00:20:00,649 --> 00:19:58,470
funded the thing right

478
00:20:03,020 --> 00:20:00,659
he signs checks he signed checks yeah

479
00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:03,030
question Chris what about I mean I

480
00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:06,270
remember the sort of late 90s there were

481
00:20:11,390 --> 00:20:08,940
some rumblings that Steven Greer had

482
00:20:13,370 --> 00:20:11,400
somehow kind of co-opted the process and

483
00:20:15,230 --> 00:20:13,380
then did a rush release on it with some

484
00:20:18,289 --> 00:20:15,240
materials yeah that was kind of an

485
00:20:20,090 --> 00:20:18,299
unfortunate episode I was not personally

486
00:20:22,930 --> 00:20:20,100
involved in that but what happened is

487
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:22,940
Rockefeller had also funded Greer

488
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:26,130
previously at least give him some funds

489
00:20:31,930 --> 00:20:28,640
so he could he could do the original

490
00:20:34,399 --> 00:20:31,940
interviews for the disclosure project

491
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:34,409
basically which entailed you know going

492
00:20:38,690 --> 00:20:36,690
to traveling around the country or even

493
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:38,700
the world and locating witnesses who

494
00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:40,530
were in the military who were willing to

495
00:20:44,930 --> 00:20:42,510
go and give their testimony on camera

496
00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:44,940
and all that so Greer thought that he

497
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:47,760
basically owned the Rockefeller you know

498
00:20:51,710 --> 00:20:49,890
franchise or whatever and so when but

499
00:20:53,690 --> 00:20:51,720
Berliner did not get along with Greer

500
00:20:55,820 --> 00:20:53,700
this is the typical you know you for

501
00:20:58,340 --> 00:20:55,830
logical inference this is the UFO field

502
00:21:00,500 --> 00:20:58,350
and so then when we are to fight here

503
00:21:02,149 --> 00:21:00,510
after we have our first hourly break

504
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:02,159
we're going to be screaming and yelling

505
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:04,110
I will not record that ladies and

506
00:21:08,299 --> 00:21:06,450
gentlemen so then when Greer got wind

507
00:21:10,970 --> 00:21:08,309
that there was this report coming out

508
00:21:13,549 --> 00:21:10,980
where he wasn't even mentioned that he

509
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:13,559
was uninvolved he made a big fuss about

510
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:15,570
it that he even made a big fuss about

511
00:21:19,570 --> 00:21:17,690
the word briefing which was Radhika

512
00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:19,580
because we're briefing is a standard you

513
00:21:28,450 --> 00:21:24,340
know where the trademark word briefing

514
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:28,460
so he I think I believe at some point he

515
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:31,370
did basically photocopy the the contents

516
00:21:36,460 --> 00:21:34,370
and change the title page you saw them

517
00:21:38,050 --> 00:21:36,470
when Berliner got wind of that I guess

518
00:21:40,450 --> 00:21:38,060
they sent him an attorney's letter or

519
00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:40,460
something like that it got ugly but I

520
00:21:44,380 --> 00:21:42,110
was not part of that fortunately

521
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:44,390
although I wasn't happy with the way I

522
00:21:48,670 --> 00:21:46,850
thought Greer's behavior was pretty bad

523
00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:48,680
because he had received money you don't

524
00:21:53,140 --> 00:21:50,480
bite at the hand that feeds you you know

525
00:21:54,790 --> 00:21:53,150
so even though the second report he

526
00:21:56,740 --> 00:21:54,800
wasn't involved he should have just been

527
00:21:58,450 --> 00:21:56,750
gracious that he got all that money from

528
00:22:00,760 --> 00:21:58,460
rockefeller and move along do his own

529
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:00,770
thing which eventually he did yes so he

530
00:22:05,530 --> 00:22:03,440
created a bit of a problem there for a

531
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:05,540
while but I guess it's all all history

532
00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:07,610
now now the book that you did the one

533
00:22:13,150 --> 00:22:10,910
that you worked on was it given regular

534
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:13,160
distribution you know not the original

535
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:16,250
report only when he was published by by

536
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:19,280
Dell once it was published by Dell then

537
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:21,200
of course it was just another paperback

538
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:23,810
another year for paperback but by that

539
00:22:29,380 --> 00:22:26,210
time even though this was part of the

540
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:29,390
deal that streamer had where sphereit

541
00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:31,280
was presenting these books in writing

542
00:22:36,190 --> 00:22:33,710
the foreword and there were a part of a

543
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:36,200
series they did another one on the shark

544
00:22:42,130 --> 00:22:39,170
harbor case and Canada the one by his

545
00:22:43,930 --> 00:22:42,140
sermon on the Fatima case and Roger Leir

546
00:22:46,810 --> 00:22:43,940
the original edition of the Roger Leir

547
00:22:48,490 --> 00:22:46,820
book about alien implants but I don't

548
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:48,500
think they got too much traction though

549
00:22:52,420 --> 00:22:50,510
unfortunately it's still around I

550
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:52,430
suppose if you if you ask for it but

551
00:22:56,770 --> 00:22:54,530
although that was published in 2000 I

552
00:22:58,960 --> 00:22:56,780
haven't seen it currently in bookstores

553
00:23:00,940 --> 00:22:58,970
but it's if you you can buy a go in

554
00:23:02,530 --> 00:23:00,950
Amazon or whatever or if you even order

555
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:02,540
it from Dell they probably still have

556
00:23:06,550 --> 00:23:04,730
some few copies left but I don't think

557
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:06,560
it was reprinted though so it's probably

558
00:23:11,530 --> 00:23:09,110
just a few copies left but are the

559
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:11,540
original Edition was very elegant only a

560
00:23:16,180 --> 00:23:13,250
thousand copies were printed had like a

561
00:23:18,130 --> 00:23:16,190
blue cover they had color pictures of

562
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:18,140
the Belgium photos and a few other

563
00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:20,510
things whereas the paperback it was just

564
00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:22,070
your typical you know for paperback

565
00:23:26,820 --> 00:23:24,520
small black-and-white pictures and

566
00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:26,830
but the contents is identical nothing

567
00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:28,150
was changed in the country because the

568
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:29,950
idea was that this was the Rockefeller

569
00:23:34,530 --> 00:23:32,410
report which you maybe heard about it

570
00:23:36,570 --> 00:23:34,540
but you couldn't get it now you can get

571
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:36,580
it even though at one time joel fuhrman

572
00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:38,890
remember joel fuhrman the computer guy

573
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:42,550
who was a financier also in the UFO

574
00:23:46,890 --> 00:23:45,130
world he put it on the web and one time

575
00:23:50,490 --> 00:23:46,900
that report was available on the web

576
00:23:53,610 --> 00:23:50,500
maybe if you still he still is it's it's

577
00:23:55,799 --> 00:23:53,620
still in one of these weird like back

578
00:23:58,460 --> 00:23:55,809
then machines or whatever since yes it

579
00:24:02,010 --> 00:23:58,470
is actually it is on the web like mine

580
00:24:04,919 --> 00:24:02,020
nothing on the internet ever disappears

581
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:04,929
for good or bad right better or worse it

582
00:24:08,940 --> 00:24:06,640
never disappears it's always there

583
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:08,950
all right now you are involved with this

584
00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:10,720
particular project but they of course

585
00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:12,550
you had other people like whitley

586
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:14,950
strieber you had coverage of abductions

587
00:24:19,020 --> 00:24:16,480
and things like that yeah

588
00:24:21,060 --> 00:24:19,030
what does Antonio who næss think about

589
00:24:24,780 --> 00:24:21,070
abductions in abduction research because

590
00:24:27,330 --> 00:24:24,790
we've had a few avoid yes if you read

591
00:24:30,450 --> 00:24:27,340
the power cast forums it gets hot and

592
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:30,460
heavy and this is a place we have to

593
00:24:35,549 --> 00:24:33,010
take you to as you well I would just

594
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:35,559
recently as a matter of fact about two

595
00:24:41,790 --> 00:24:38,770
weeks ago no no no two or three weeks

596
00:24:45,299 --> 00:24:41,800
ago I was hoping I was in all range he

597
00:24:48,419 --> 00:24:45,309
wanted or arranged California in the

598
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:48,429
Leia and we had one of these Roger Leir

599
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:50,710
implant removals and stripper was there

600
00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:53,650
too and a bunch of people so I had never

601
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:55,809
seen that I had seen it on TV but it's

602
00:24:59,340 --> 00:24:57,610
different to see it live than on TV I

603
00:25:01,620 --> 00:24:59,350
mean live of course you're not in the

604
00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:01,630
operating room but we had you know a

605
00:25:07,110 --> 00:25:04,510
monitor so so that was interesting and

606
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:07,120
that's a that's a new case well not new

607
00:25:12,660 --> 00:25:10,690
the case happened in 1972 but it's new

608
00:25:15,390 --> 00:25:12,670
to the UFO literature which has never

609
00:25:17,580 --> 00:25:15,400
been published yet and one of the guys

610
00:25:21,690 --> 00:25:17,590
actually came to the offices of open

611
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:21,700
minds his name is Ron Noel and it's an

612
00:25:27,270 --> 00:25:24,010
interesting case they these kids were

613
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:27,280
about 10 years old in Orlando Florida

614
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:28,720
area

615
00:25:35,789 --> 00:25:31,360
I guess they were hanging out outside

616
00:25:38,190 --> 00:25:35,799
outdoors and they remember one of them

617
00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:38,200
at least remember seeing this huge craft

618
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:41,140
or object and then they have a block

619
00:25:45,210 --> 00:25:43,360
they have a total mental block then

620
00:25:48,180 --> 00:25:45,220
what's interesting is on the next day

621
00:25:50,610 --> 00:25:48,190
they remember a helicopter landing in

622
00:25:52,020 --> 00:25:50,620
that area and some soldiers came in in

623
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:52,030
the end they were friendly with the kids

624
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:54,090
and games like peanut butter and jelly

625
00:25:59,789 --> 00:25:57,370
sandwiches or whatever but so if that's

626
00:26:01,620 --> 00:25:59,799
true it would seem like the military

627
00:26:04,049 --> 00:26:01,630
knew about the subject and they were

628
00:26:07,169 --> 00:26:04,059
checking the scene in case one of the

629
00:26:09,270 --> 00:26:07,179
guys many years went by 20 years

630
00:26:11,460 --> 00:26:09,280
whatever 30 years he got an x-ray

631
00:26:13,950 --> 00:26:11,470
because he hadn't he was just some kind

632
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:13,960
of firm outdoor worker and he had gotten

633
00:26:18,810 --> 00:26:16,450
injured in his hand and on that when

634
00:26:20,460 --> 00:26:18,820
they actually came the doctor asked what

635
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:20,470
is this thing that you have on your

636
00:26:23,220 --> 00:26:22,840
forearm that you have surgery or

637
00:26:26,430 --> 00:26:23,230
something

638
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:26,440
and the guy said no so then on the same

639
00:26:30,330 --> 00:26:28,510
day it kind of a synchronicity he

640
00:26:32,909 --> 00:26:30,340
happens to see one of these shows and

641
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:32,919
the History Channel discovery one of

642
00:26:37,740 --> 00:26:36,130
these and he sees Roger Leir removing an

643
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:37,750
implant so it all kind of came together

644
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:40,000
so eventually he contact module and so

645
00:26:43,710 --> 00:26:41,919
on and this whole process went not to

646
00:26:45,659 --> 00:26:43,720
talk about two three years and they

647
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:45,669
finally removed the thing now we haven't

648
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:48,640
seen the analysis yet but obviously he

649
00:26:53,220 --> 00:26:50,530
had something and then it was removed

650
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:53,230
that's a question - we've talked to dr.

651
00:26:57,299 --> 00:26:54,730
Leir a couple of times on the power cast

652
00:26:59,820 --> 00:26:57,309
but we've never heard of any results

653
00:27:02,279 --> 00:26:59,830
from any of these implant removals do

654
00:27:04,169 --> 00:27:02,289
they indicate anything unusual well

655
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:04,179
people talk about all kinds of things

656
00:27:09,539 --> 00:27:07,330
they talk about nanotechnology or let

657
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:09,549
the thing behave weird but you're right

658
00:27:14,820 --> 00:27:12,159
I have not seen like other than there

659
00:27:16,830 --> 00:27:14,830
just a chronicle of the yeah this guy

660
00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:16,840
with the operation wasn't such they ate

661
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:19,270
and or the basic composition of the

662
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:21,760
object or whatever but final conclusions

663
00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:24,370
no I would say the evidence is ambiguous

664
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:26,350
but there's something there though I

665
00:27:30,930 --> 00:27:28,720
mean it so happens that in some of these

666
00:27:33,659 --> 00:27:30,940
abduction cases people do report that

667
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:33,669
they have these these objects and then

668
00:27:36,990 --> 00:27:35,650
the objects appeared on sometimes you

669
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:37,000
cannot remove them when they are in the

670
00:27:40,940 --> 00:27:38,890
brain like in streamers cases in the

671
00:27:42,409 --> 00:27:40,950
brain nobody is going to touch that by

672
00:27:43,730 --> 00:27:42,419
if it's in the food or they're armed

673
00:27:46,159 --> 00:27:43,740
that's when we are thinking too about

674
00:27:46,610 --> 00:27:46,169
implants they seem to be all over the

675
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:46,620
body

676
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:48,480
so there's not a consistent pattern

677
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,610
there either you know it all looks the

678
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:52,320
same and they were all in the same part

679
00:27:56,629 --> 00:27:54,450
of the body but they seemed to maybe

680
00:27:58,460 --> 00:27:56,639
they are done by different people or

681
00:28:00,560 --> 00:27:58,470
they're different aliens or they done

682
00:28:02,750 --> 00:28:00,570
for different purposes or some of these

683
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:02,760
cases we're done at different times who

684
00:28:06,049 --> 00:28:04,559
knows but it's interesting now the

685
00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:06,059
abduction you were asking me really

686
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:08,190
about abduction well that's you know

687
00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:10,559
that's a pretty loaded issue there yeah

688
00:28:15,710 --> 00:28:12,000
I definitely believe that there's

689
00:28:17,090 --> 00:28:15,720
something for sure in many cases not in

690
00:28:19,190 --> 00:28:17,100
every case of course there are some

691
00:28:21,129 --> 00:28:19,200
cases that are dubious there are some

692
00:28:23,659 --> 00:28:21,139
cases that probably have psychological

693
00:28:26,299 --> 00:28:23,669
explanations yeah there's even though

694
00:28:28,399 --> 00:28:26,309
some cases are not are weak there are

695
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:28,409
certainly many cases that seem valid

696
00:28:42,330 --> 00:28:40,169
[Music]

697
00:28:44,609 --> 00:28:42,340
picture this you're on the phone with a

698
00:28:47,759 --> 00:28:44,619
client or colleague trying to explain

699
00:28:50,009 --> 00:28:47,769
something visual a PowerPoint a keynote

700
00:28:52,649 --> 00:28:50,019
presentation a website but it's

701
00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:52,659
frustrating because they can't see what

702
00:28:56,399 --> 00:28:53,679
you're talking about

703
00:28:58,980 --> 00:28:56,409
the solution good news they can if you

704
00:29:02,070 --> 00:28:58,990
invite them to an online meeting using

705
00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:02,080
GoToMeeting then they can see your

706
00:29:06,570 --> 00:29:04,240
computer desktop on their computer

707
00:29:08,609 --> 00:29:06,580
screen so you can show them what you're

708
00:29:10,019 --> 00:29:08,619
talking about by use goto meeting all

709
00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:10,029
the time to collaborate with colleagues

710
00:29:15,810 --> 00:29:12,700
and with clients you can try goto

711
00:29:19,950 --> 00:29:15,820
meeting free for 30 days but you must

712
00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:19,960
visit goto meeting / podcasts let's go

713
00:29:37,649 --> 00:29:23,679
to meeting.com slash podcasts for free

714
00:29:39,899 --> 00:29:37,659
30-day trial Antonio who næss joins us

715
00:29:42,090 --> 00:29:39,909
this week our co-host Chris O'Brien has

716
00:29:44,970 --> 00:29:42,100
a question I do you brought up a very

717
00:29:46,590 --> 00:29:44,980
interesting point about the implants I

718
00:29:49,529 --> 00:29:46,600
just want to return to that real quick

719
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:49,539
with all these implant removals that

720
00:29:54,989 --> 00:29:51,730
have gone on why do you think we have

721
00:29:57,119 --> 00:29:54,999
not seen even negative results of

722
00:29:59,070 --> 00:29:57,129
analysis I know Darrell simps right

723
00:30:03,359 --> 00:29:59,080
Derrel Sims walks around with a jewelry

724
00:30:05,070 --> 00:30:03,369
box yeah yeah all these implants well

725
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:05,080
you know why don't we get these things

726
00:30:09,659 --> 00:30:07,360
tested why don't we find out it will be

727
00:30:11,970 --> 00:30:09,669
tested as a matter of fact in the

728
00:30:14,820 --> 00:30:11,980
current in the first issue of our new

729
00:30:18,299 --> 00:30:14,830
magazine open minds we do have an

730
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:18,309
article and by Steve Korbel who is a

731
00:30:23,820 --> 00:30:20,559
material scientist from California who

732
00:30:26,190 --> 00:30:23,830
works with the Roger and he discusses a

733
00:30:28,289 --> 00:30:26,200
case there the so called John Smith case

734
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:28,299
because obviously this person doesn't

735
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:30,399
want its name publicly so there's some

736
00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:32,559
detail there Steve did a much more

737
00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:35,369
technical analysis which is very very

738
00:30:40,769 --> 00:30:38,049
complex and worrying you know I mean

739
00:30:43,139 --> 00:30:40,779
charts and your metals and whatever so

740
00:30:45,810 --> 00:30:43,149
it's not really suitable for a popular

741
00:30:48,509 --> 00:30:45,820
magazine like ours so what we did is we

742
00:30:50,190 --> 00:30:48,519
posted it in our website so in it's also

743
00:30:50,549 --> 00:30:50,200
listed at the end of the article if you

744
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:50,559
want

745
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:52,090
rediff you are an engineer or a

746
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:54,159
scientist and you can understand these

747
00:30:59,129 --> 00:30:56,559
terminologies you know then you can go

748
00:31:02,519 --> 00:30:59,139
to the website and download and it's

749
00:31:04,499 --> 00:31:02,529
like a 30 page PDF with the pictures and

750
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:04,509
everything so some analysis have been

751
00:31:08,970 --> 00:31:07,210
made but you know Jean is like

752
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:08,980
everything if you want to do really

753
00:31:15,749 --> 00:31:12,370
top-notch analysis you need funding so

754
00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:15,759
often for the private who follow gist or

755
00:31:19,889 --> 00:31:17,830
the people that run these support groups

756
00:31:21,509 --> 00:31:19,899
or whatever they don't have the funding

757
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:21,519
you have to use their like electron

758
00:31:26,489 --> 00:31:24,970
microscopes and scan the object and see

759
00:31:29,399 --> 00:31:26,499
this composition you need to hire

760
00:31:32,609 --> 00:31:29,409
professional scientists so hopefully

761
00:31:34,859 --> 00:31:32,619
this will happen but it's it is this the

762
00:31:36,779 --> 00:31:34,869
kind of area where people like Bigelow

763
00:31:38,850 --> 00:31:36,789
you know could could quit sponsor but I

764
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:38,860
guess he's busy putting hotels in

765
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:40,690
spaceman well that's a good idea

766
00:31:46,739 --> 00:31:43,600
in fact I said we need Bigelow to save

767
00:31:48,899 --> 00:31:46,749
the space program it is really going off

768
00:31:51,060 --> 00:31:48,909
the cliff okay but looking at this thing

769
00:31:53,999 --> 00:31:51,070
all right you have the analysis is there

770
00:31:56,730 --> 00:31:54,009
anything there that seems to be unusual

771
00:32:00,060 --> 00:31:56,740
weird yeah I couldn't tell you the

772
00:32:02,730 --> 00:32:00,070
details right now because it also varies

773
00:32:05,210 --> 00:32:02,740
you're not from case to case but I

774
00:32:07,710 --> 00:32:05,220
understand that in in some cases

775
00:32:10,350 --> 00:32:07,720
according to Roger anyway but you

776
00:32:12,779 --> 00:32:10,360
interview Roger yeah there was some I

777
00:32:15,239 --> 00:32:12,789
believe some of these pieces that were

778
00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:15,249
supposed to have behaved strangely or

779
00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:17,769
they Cho they were changes oh you got

780
00:32:22,139 --> 00:32:20,559
the report yeah you you have a report

781
00:32:31,259 --> 00:32:22,149
right now I'm looking at it as we talk

782
00:32:33,389 --> 00:32:31,269
but you go to openminds.tv/radio and so

783
00:32:36,690 --> 00:32:33,399
if you you probably estimate that you

784
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:36,700
have I would say probably about 30 or so

785
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:38,769
this implant I know Roger himself has

786
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:40,960
worked on 15 cases but other people have

787
00:32:45,419 --> 00:32:43,090
worked another I worked on one of the

788
00:32:48,210 --> 00:32:45,429
first cases was the Richard Price case

789
00:32:50,999 --> 00:32:48,220
you might remember that gene clusion

790
00:32:52,980 --> 00:32:51,009
that okay and there's one paragraph here

791
00:32:54,899 --> 00:32:52,990
where this is where he reaches that

792
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:54,909
decision and the manufacturer of a

793
00:33:00,720 --> 00:32:57,279
device comparable to this one is

794
00:33:03,390 --> 00:33:00,730
probably beyond the technology of known

795
00:33:05,910 --> 00:33:03,400
earthly commercial processes at the

796
00:33:08,490 --> 00:33:05,920
in time it is most likely therefore that

797
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:08,500
the device was manufactured by an alien

798
00:33:13,980 --> 00:33:11,410
civilization yeah you go ok so that's

799
00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:13,990
his conclusion which boom all right at

800
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:17,230
least there's no equivocation there he's

801
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:19,690
making a decision certainly we have to

802
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:22,090
see whether that particular conclusions

803
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:24,730
LEDs up in the story of the abduction

804
00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:26,530
itself which is quite interesting it's

805
00:33:30,990 --> 00:33:28,240
and of course it's in our magazine and

806
00:33:32,370 --> 00:33:31,000
there's some explanation of the object

807
00:33:33,660 --> 00:33:32,380
in our magazine but like I said as you

808
00:33:36,419 --> 00:33:33,670
could tell there it gets very very

809
00:33:40,290 --> 00:33:36,429
technical it's it's a field that needs

810
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:40,300
of course more more research but I mean

811
00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:42,250
when you come to think of it in 20 years

812
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:44,710
ago there was no influence they were

813
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:47,890
just talk of influence strange the way

814
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:49,600
this thing has migrated and the thing I

815
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:51,610
wonder about which is why I tend to be

816
00:33:56,010 --> 00:33:53,440
skeptical about this now we don't know

817
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:56,020
what he says this is alien I don't know

818
00:33:59,730 --> 00:33:58,000
this has to be confirmed by other people

819
00:34:02,220 --> 00:33:59,740
all right the thing I worry about the

820
00:34:04,650 --> 00:34:02,230
implants is to what purpose is this

821
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:04,660
something like a tracking device well

822
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:06,490
that would be the more obvious

823
00:34:10,139 --> 00:34:09,010
explanation not necessarily a correct

824
00:34:12,750 --> 00:34:10,149
one because if you're dealing with

825
00:34:15,210 --> 00:34:12,760
aliens who knows what how what's the way

826
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:15,220
of doing things but consider that we do

827
00:34:17,610 --> 00:34:17,200
the same to animals right to endangered

828
00:34:19,530 --> 00:34:17,620
species

829
00:34:21,690 --> 00:34:19,540
scientists go and shoot them with a

830
00:34:23,940 --> 00:34:21,700
tranquilizer and put the implant them

831
00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:23,950
with it with the chip basically that so

832
00:34:28,530 --> 00:34:26,110
they can the scientists can monitor you

833
00:34:30,659 --> 00:34:28,540
know the migration patterns of animals

834
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:30,669
and so on I mean we do it this is an

835
00:34:35,820 --> 00:34:33,280
RFID device of some right okay so it's

836
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:35,830
sending signals maybe to them wherever

837
00:34:43,590 --> 00:34:41,050
they are wherever they are since if you

838
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:43,600
have some kind of program for abducting

839
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:46,450
people which seems to be at least as a

840
00:34:50,540 --> 00:34:48,850
hypothesis presented by Hopkins and all

841
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:50,550
these people then it makes sense

842
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:52,960
initially when the abduction phenomena

843
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:54,850
first started and you probably because

844
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:56,050
you go all the way back you remember

845
00:35:01,170 --> 00:34:58,000
that even heinie can go like that used

846
00:35:03,690 --> 00:35:01,180
to be so we're likely to only see a UFO

847
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:03,700
once so it was everything was supposed

848
00:35:07,470 --> 00:35:05,890
to be random maybe you were abducted

849
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:07,480
because you happen to be on the wrong

850
00:35:11,610 --> 00:35:09,280
place at the wrong time and the aliens

851
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:11,620
got you something but actually makes

852
00:35:15,870 --> 00:35:13,930
more sense to follow up the subject

853
00:35:17,130 --> 00:35:15,880
that's the way we do things

854
00:35:19,050 --> 00:35:17,140
we're doing any kind of scientific

855
00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:19,060
project you know we don't just go down

856
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:21,760
random and then go random elsewhere

857
00:35:26,130 --> 00:35:24,160
I mean maybe initially is random and

858
00:35:28,830 --> 00:35:26,140
then once we once we got to our target

859
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:28,840
then you keep on that target so I think

860
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:30,970
that that makes sense there are too many

861
00:35:37,470 --> 00:35:34,240
abductions too many situations of

862
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:37,480
missing time it's too much it's like you

863
00:35:42,570 --> 00:35:40,090
see all these cases where et gets out of

864
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:42,580
the spaceship like the movie et he takes

865
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:44,770
the soil samples after the first soil

866
00:35:49,050 --> 00:35:47,530
sample y-yeah these implants they don't

867
00:35:52,050 --> 00:35:49,060
need to be the size of a you know the

868
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:52,060
size of a little chip of bone or wood or

869
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:53,770
something they could even with our

870
00:35:56,970 --> 00:35:54,880
technology they could have something

871
00:35:58,380 --> 00:35:56,980
nano size yeah that you would never be

872
00:36:00,180 --> 00:35:58,390
able to spot

873
00:36:02,940 --> 00:36:00,190
well actually the one that was taken

874
00:36:04,740 --> 00:36:02,950
from this guy is very small oh yeah it's

875
00:36:07,050 --> 00:36:04,750
very small right but if you look at the

876
00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:07,060
chip inside my iPhone you know it's like

877
00:36:13,290 --> 00:36:11,110
they're using a 32 or 48 nanometer

878
00:36:15,450 --> 00:36:13,300
process to build right ship for heaven's

879
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:15,460
sake and that's got thousands maybe

880
00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:17,410
millions of transistors yeah I don't

881
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:20,950
know I mean the abduction phenomena is a

882
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:24,640
weird one I'm not a theory person

883
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:27,490
personally because I I saw this at the

884
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:29,770
beginning of my involvement with UFOs

885
00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:31,450
that that people when people get very

886
00:36:36,570 --> 00:36:33,310
attached to their theory first gotten

887
00:36:38,250 --> 00:36:36,580
involved in ufology I saw that when you

888
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:38,260
become very attached to a theory

889
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:40,000
whatever your theory may be you know

890
00:36:43,980 --> 00:36:41,200
it's what the rest you'll or

891
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:43,990
interdimensional or normal phenomenon

892
00:36:48,030 --> 00:36:45,910
whatever then you're gonna start

893
00:36:49,890 --> 00:36:48,040
naturally first of all you can start

894
00:36:51,450 --> 00:36:49,900
fighting with other people at different

895
00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:51,460
theories and this happens all the time

896
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:54,070
and there's a second you're gonna start

897
00:36:57,690 --> 00:36:55,930
filtering also the data even

898
00:36:59,490 --> 00:36:57,700
subconsciously even if you try to be

899
00:37:01,920 --> 00:36:59,500
objective but if you believe very strong

900
00:37:03,450 --> 00:37:01,930
that this is the scenario then you're

901
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:03,460
going to naturally be filtering the data

902
00:37:07,290 --> 00:37:05,920
to suit your theory and so this

903
00:37:09,180 --> 00:37:07,300
happening you know with different people

904
00:37:10,410 --> 00:37:09,190
way way back so that's one of the issues

905
00:37:12,180 --> 00:37:10,420
were having with abductions where

906
00:37:14,220 --> 00:37:12,190
certain abduction researchers are

907
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:14,230
dealing with hybrids you know they're

908
00:37:17,460 --> 00:37:15,730
looking for hybrids we're creating right

909
00:37:20,030 --> 00:37:17,470
hybrids and now of course maybe it looks

910
00:37:23,070 --> 00:37:20,040
more authentic because we now know that

911
00:37:24,690 --> 00:37:23,080
humans can mate with Neanderthals that's

912
00:37:26,820 --> 00:37:24,700
how you see those cavemen on the Geico

913
00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:26,830
commercials right exactly right that's

914
00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:27,190
what

915
00:37:31,530 --> 00:37:29,950
come from see I don't who knows and well

916
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:31,540
the other theory that now seems to be

917
00:37:35,790 --> 00:37:33,970
very popular which wasn't at all popular

918
00:37:38,190 --> 00:37:35,800
when I became involved and you know I

919
00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:38,200
used to go to the but Hopkins no I'm not

920
00:37:42,839 --> 00:37:40,270
an abductee but Hopkins always had

921
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:42,849
guests you know back then in the 80s and

922
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:44,890
that was a fascinating period to see a

923
00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:47,290
lot of the support group and the

924
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:48,910
different researchers that would come to

925
00:37:53,250 --> 00:37:51,010
buds house and all that in at that time

926
00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:53,260
nobody talked about this but now seems

927
00:37:57,210 --> 00:37:55,089
more and more people talking about it

928
00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:57,220
which is my laughs you know the military

929
00:38:01,740 --> 00:37:59,440
in the mind control and all that but

930
00:38:04,260 --> 00:38:01,750
Adam according to Hopkins and Jacobs

931
00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:04,270
millions of people have been and are

932
00:38:08,609 --> 00:38:07,030
being abducted which to me is just it

933
00:38:11,490 --> 00:38:08,619
doesn't make one it doesn't make sense

934
00:38:13,410 --> 00:38:11,500
at all yeah well the party they based it

935
00:38:16,460 --> 00:38:13,420
on the Roper Paul remember which was

936
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:16,470
financed by Bigelow but that was just an

937
00:38:21,180 --> 00:38:18,730
assessment based on this questionnaire

938
00:38:23,609 --> 00:38:21,190
so who knows depends on the questions

939
00:38:26,190 --> 00:38:23,619
depends on the sampling it's not easy

940
00:38:28,170 --> 00:38:26,200
but one thing about abductions they are

941
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:28,180
there they are reported everywhere

942
00:38:32,309 --> 00:38:30,160
though it's not at all exclusively an

943
00:38:34,530 --> 00:38:32,319
American phenomenon in fact some of the

944
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:34,540
more early famous abductions weren't

945
00:38:37,650 --> 00:38:35,680
even in the United States you know

946
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:37,660
villas-boas yeah yeah yeah the one in

947
00:38:43,140 --> 00:38:40,810
Brazil that is 1957 which is four years

948
00:38:44,430 --> 00:38:43,150
before the Betty hill case the only

949
00:38:47,460 --> 00:38:44,440
thing is the village boss was in

950
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:47,470
publicize because of its sexual content

951
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:50,170
which was too much for that era so it

952
00:38:54,569 --> 00:38:52,450
but certainly it's well documented that

953
00:38:57,390 --> 00:38:54,579
the case was was investigated at that

954
00:38:59,760 --> 00:38:57,400
time and you have a lot of interesting

955
00:39:01,829 --> 00:38:59,770
abduction cases in South America among

956
00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:01,839
other places and but there in Japan and

957
00:39:05,819 --> 00:39:03,760
Europe maybe not in the same mass

958
00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:05,829
numbers and as in the u.s. but there

959
00:39:09,930 --> 00:39:07,510
certainly are reported well that's the

960
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:09,940
problem with cases from Latin America

961
00:39:13,260 --> 00:39:11,770
and I went over this with Scott Corrales

962
00:39:15,450 --> 00:39:13,270
a couple of times he's been on the show

963
00:39:18,329 --> 00:39:15,460
and that is that there seems to be a

964
00:39:20,670 --> 00:39:18,339
prejudice especially against Latin

965
00:39:22,740 --> 00:39:20,680
America it may be kind of an Hispanic

966
00:39:24,990 --> 00:39:22,750
thing or prejudice where you think oh

967
00:39:28,140 --> 00:39:25,000
they were just drinking and they saw

968
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:28,150
UFOs and like that but it seems that the

969
00:39:32,819 --> 00:39:30,490
kind of cases we get from South America

970
00:39:35,069 --> 00:39:32,829
tend to be more extreme more elaborate

971
00:39:37,410 --> 00:39:35,079
and the stuff that we see here is it

972
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:37,420
because of the way that people express

973
00:39:43,230 --> 00:39:39,130
what happened

974
00:39:44,460 --> 00:39:43,240
or is it the core data well maybe a

975
00:39:47,130 --> 00:39:44,470
little bit of both

976
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:47,140
in general in South America or will they

977
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:49,090
say Latin America I will include Mexico

978
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:52,450
now the culture is more open towards the

979
00:39:56,460 --> 00:39:54,850
concept of you for so UFOs and aliens

980
00:39:59,520 --> 00:39:56,470
are actually less controversial

981
00:40:03,480 --> 00:39:59,530
if you have a big case in any South

982
00:40:05,550 --> 00:40:03,490
American capital or big city the big

983
00:40:07,710 --> 00:40:05,560
news is on the 7 o'clock news I mean it

984
00:40:13,050 --> 00:40:07,720
doesn't have the stigma that a lot of it

985
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:13,060
has here there is no link no scientific

986
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:14,560
community on the other hand is pretty

987
00:40:18,330 --> 00:40:16,810
bad I would say there more scientists

988
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:18,340
professional scientists involved in the

989
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:20,050
United States that in Latin America it's

990
00:40:23,490 --> 00:40:21,250
funny that when it comes to the

991
00:40:25,860 --> 00:40:23,500
scientific community they kind of over

992
00:40:28,890 --> 00:40:25,870
react and they get like even worse than

993
00:40:30,990 --> 00:40:28,900
their American scientists but some cases

994
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:31,000
then now we're going to go into this

995
00:40:35,820 --> 00:40:33,370
series of incidents that took place in

996
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:35,830
Brazil in the Amazon which Jacques

997
00:40:40,740 --> 00:40:38,290
Vallee and Bob Pratt among others wrote

998
00:40:43,050 --> 00:40:40,750
about it and so did I in articles and

999
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:43,060
you know for universe in the past and in

1000
00:40:48,810 --> 00:40:45,850
fate where I was also colonists some

1001
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:48,820
extreme cases to happen but not

1002
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:50,650
everywhere in Latin America in Brazil

1003
00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:53,170
and not everywhere in Brazil in certain

1004
00:40:57,510 --> 00:40:55,630
areas of Brazil because I asked I was in

1005
00:40:59,730 --> 00:40:57,520
Brazil my brother used to be married to

1006
00:41:01,710 --> 00:40:59,740
a Brazilian woman so in the 80s I went

1007
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:01,720
there a couple of times and I spent some

1008
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:03,970
time and I gave lectures and I met many

1009
00:41:09,420 --> 00:41:06,730
people that's when the story about these

1010
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:09,430
four dead hunters and the culeros Island

1011
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:11,920
case at that time those things were new

1012
00:41:16,530 --> 00:41:14,560
so I asked what's going on in Brazil and

1013
00:41:19,620 --> 00:41:16,540
of course Brazil is huge you know Brazil

1014
00:41:21,810 --> 00:41:19,630
its larger than continental USA - Alaska

1015
00:41:25,110 --> 00:41:21,820
that's how big it is is almost half of

1016
00:41:30,609 --> 00:41:27,509
[Music]

1017
00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:30,619
fake magazine provides true reports of

1018
00:41:35,289 --> 00:41:32,720
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1019
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:35,299
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1020
00:41:39,370 --> 00:41:38,450
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1021
00:41:41,799 --> 00:41:39,380
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1022
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1023
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1024
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1025
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1026
00:42:03,970 --> 00:41:55,089
that's one eight hundred seven two eight

1027
00:42:06,339 --> 00:42:03,980
twenty seven thirty or WWF a tem AG comm

1028
00:42:12,690 --> 00:42:06,349
what are you waiting for your fate

1029
00:42:18,540 --> 00:42:15,720
this is the very acid you never know

1030
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:18,550
what's gonna happen next

1031
00:42:23,890 --> 00:42:21,680
[Music]

1032
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:23,900
we're talking to Antonio who næss

1033
00:42:27,339 --> 00:42:26,000
longtime UFO investigator Chris

1034
00:42:29,079 --> 00:42:27,349
O'Brien's or co-host

1035
00:42:31,180 --> 00:42:29,089
we're going to Brazil tell me about the

1036
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:31,190
case right and so what why the rainy

1037
00:42:36,519 --> 00:42:33,890
grungy which one of the Dene one of the

1038
00:42:38,980 --> 00:42:36,529
pioneers of ecology in Brazil she told

1039
00:42:41,079 --> 00:42:38,990
me yes but it's not all over Brazil it's

1040
00:42:43,210 --> 00:42:41,089
only in certain areas of Brazil where

1041
00:42:46,089 --> 00:42:43,220
these violent cases happen these

1042
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:46,099
negative cases happen in Brazil seems to

1043
00:42:53,049 --> 00:42:49,490
have I would say almost 80% of I'm just

1044
00:42:55,569 --> 00:42:53,059
estimating of the injury cases you know

1045
00:42:57,609 --> 00:42:55,579
these are the U of for bombers and these

1046
00:42:59,740 --> 00:42:57,619
are the ones that are the least likely

1047
00:43:01,539 --> 00:42:59,750
to be a hoax because who's gonna injure

1048
00:43:03,700 --> 00:43:01,549
yourself you know to say hey you know I

1049
00:43:06,099 --> 00:43:03,710
saw aliens and like the injury cases

1050
00:43:08,109 --> 00:43:06,109
give me a couple examples of injury

1051
00:43:10,839 --> 00:43:08,119
cases where people were hurt anybody

1052
00:43:14,289 --> 00:43:10,849
died but yes we're four hunters that

1053
00:43:17,529 --> 00:43:14,299
died in the states of Marin jung-in she

1054
00:43:19,269 --> 00:43:17,539
was yeah the tupis in the were cases

1055
00:43:21,730 --> 00:43:19,279
actually were the words who cases where

1056
00:43:24,670 --> 00:43:21,740
people died and in fact the Iranian

1057
00:43:26,470 --> 00:43:24,680
grungey had a letter which I transcribed

1058
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:26,480
my remember so I had it somewhere in my

1059
00:43:32,859 --> 00:43:30,650
notes where she had been contact by a

1060
00:43:35,289 --> 00:43:32,869
member of the attorney general's office

1061
00:43:37,180 --> 00:43:35,299
in one of these states because she was

1062
00:43:39,579 --> 00:43:37,190
an expert on UFOs which means that they

1063
00:43:42,970 --> 00:43:39,589
were looking at the UFO angle you know

1064
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:42,980
from from a judicial investigation yes

1065
00:43:48,819 --> 00:43:46,130
people were being hit by beams clearly

1066
00:43:51,819 --> 00:43:48,829
and they were injured in in a few cases

1067
00:43:54,099 --> 00:43:51,829
they passed away these were very strange

1068
00:43:56,140 --> 00:43:54,109
cases there was a panic in the area

1069
00:43:58,420 --> 00:43:56,150
eventually because this thing was going

1070
00:44:00,279 --> 00:43:58,430
on on a daily basis practically and

1071
00:44:02,859 --> 00:44:00,289
people started leaving this this

1072
00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:02,869
particular area ballet writes about this

1073
00:44:08,019 --> 00:44:05,839
in confrontation session and eventually

1074
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:08,029
the Air Force had to move in and they

1075
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:10,400
set up like a camp with tents and stuff

1076
00:44:13,930 --> 00:44:12,319
to actually to even help the people that

1077
00:44:15,789 --> 00:44:13,940
were giving first aid to some of the

1078
00:44:17,950 --> 00:44:15,799
victims and to calm to calm the

1079
00:44:20,589 --> 00:44:17,960
population and supposedly they got some

1080
00:44:22,660 --> 00:44:20,599
incredible film footage direct I haven't

1081
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:22,670
seen the film footage now the report was

1082
00:44:26,890 --> 00:44:25,130
mythical for many years I believe

1083
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:26,900
mention it and said it was supposed to

1084
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:29,930
be a 500-page report but nobody had seen

1085
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:32,560
it people have heard about it but

1086
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:35,440
that reporters has been released so I'm

1087
00:44:39,930 --> 00:44:37,330
not maybe not all of it but the bulk of

1088
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:39,940
it you know gar the famous Brazilian who

1089
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:43,210
follow just he's not a show okay so no

1090
00:44:47,220 --> 00:44:44,890
and that's another thing I wanted to ask

1091
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:47,230
you about here was there an autopsy of

1092
00:44:52,980 --> 00:44:50,650
the people who were killed by this beam

1093
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:52,990
well there is a different case in a

1094
00:44:58,920 --> 00:44:55,450
different part of Brazil near and Dam

1095
00:45:01,560 --> 00:44:58,930
where this this mutilated body was found

1096
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:01,570
this was published by Gerry - but that

1097
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:03,250
has nothing to do with the to puzzle

1098
00:45:08,730 --> 00:45:05,040
that is a completely different case and

1099
00:45:11,340 --> 00:45:08,740
according to some interpretation of the

1100
00:45:13,650 --> 00:45:11,350
of the autopsy some of the effects of

1101
00:45:15,660 --> 00:45:13,660
this unfortunate guy seems similar to

1102
00:45:18,330 --> 00:45:15,670
the cattle mutilations that's a good

1103
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:18,340
question I have not seen autopsy reports

1104
00:45:23,370 --> 00:45:20,650
of the cases in northern Brazil but I

1105
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:23,380
would imagine that they are some I think

1106
00:45:28,670 --> 00:45:24,850
I think Bella mentioned that there was a

1107
00:45:31,350 --> 00:45:28,680
doctor who was examining yes people

1108
00:45:33,810 --> 00:45:31,360
interviewed recently The History Channel

1109
00:45:36,210 --> 00:45:33,820
did a joint collaboration with a

1110
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:36,220
Brazilian Network and I think it was

1111
00:45:41,580 --> 00:45:38,050
part of the what was called a UFO FILES

1112
00:45:43,980 --> 00:45:41,590
here and they did a good good job on

1113
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:43,990
that slap yes they went there and they

1114
00:45:47,730 --> 00:45:45,610
interviewed the doctor who at that time

1115
00:45:49,980 --> 00:45:47,740
was a young doctor probably doing her

1116
00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:49,990
internship or something but now of

1117
00:45:54,510 --> 00:45:51,310
course she's much older

1118
00:45:56,250 --> 00:45:54,520
this happened in 77 and 78 the height of

1119
00:45:58,410 --> 00:45:56,260
this flat but there were incidents still

1120
00:46:00,570 --> 00:45:58,420
going on in the age so now the thing I

1121
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:00,580
wanted to ask here this situation

1122
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:03,250
involving those who were struck by a ray

1123
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:05,410
gun let's put it on the table here

1124
00:46:10,290 --> 00:46:07,090
anywhere else in the world do we have

1125
00:46:12,990 --> 00:46:10,300
cases like this we do by not by any in

1126
00:46:15,060 --> 00:46:13,000
much smaller numbers than in Brazil and

1127
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:15,070
Brazil seems to be there gets the bulk

1128
00:46:22,290 --> 00:46:17,680
of those I remember there's a case in

1129
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:22,300
Finland with some skiers who got hit by

1130
00:46:26,220 --> 00:46:24,730
a beam and the doctor isn't franchising

1131
00:46:28,290 --> 00:46:26,230
well can anyone

1132
00:46:30,690 --> 00:46:28,300
well yeah Miculek is in our briefing

1133
00:46:32,580 --> 00:46:30,700
document but that was not a beam there

1134
00:46:36,030 --> 00:46:32,590
are cases where the witness was was

1135
00:46:38,250 --> 00:46:36,040
injured by the field of energy of the

1136
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:38,260
object so maybe those are not aggressive

1137
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:40,330
you know it's like if if you see an

1138
00:46:44,569 --> 00:46:42,490
electrified fence and you're a cow you

1139
00:46:46,249 --> 00:46:44,579
cannot read and this is danger do not

1140
00:46:48,439 --> 00:46:46,259
and you went in touch and you got

1141
00:46:50,779 --> 00:46:48,449
electrocuted it's not the fault of the

1142
00:46:53,660 --> 00:46:50,789
owner of the thing right Ashland right

1143
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:53,670
so also the Rendlesham case when some of

1144
00:46:58,969 --> 00:46:56,400
the officers in case came a little too

1145
00:47:01,429 --> 00:46:58,979
close to the craft they also suffered

1146
00:47:03,589 --> 00:47:01,439
adverse oh yes there are hundreds of

1147
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:03,599
cases John Schuessler the former head of

1148
00:47:08,269 --> 00:47:05,729
MUFON who used to be an aerospace

1149
00:47:10,279 --> 00:47:08,279
engineer with McDonnell Douglas and work

1150
00:47:12,650 --> 00:47:10,289
from the Johnson Space Center incredible

1151
00:47:14,829 --> 00:47:12,660
guy aerospace engineer he was

1152
00:47:17,630 --> 00:47:14,839
specialized in this area and he

1153
00:47:19,939 --> 00:47:17,640
published the whole catalog of injury

1154
00:47:21,620 --> 00:47:19,949
cases just injury cases what I'm saying

1155
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:21,630
is the injury cases you have to divide

1156
00:47:26,599 --> 00:47:24,170
in at least two categories the ones are

1157
00:47:28,429 --> 00:47:26,609
accidental in other words the person who

1158
00:47:31,339 --> 00:47:28,439
got too close to the UFO and he got

1159
00:47:36,559 --> 00:47:31,349
injured those are the bulk and a few

1160
00:47:39,319 --> 00:47:36,569
maybe 5% 6% of cases were in careers not

1161
00:47:41,439 --> 00:47:39,329
gonna like this where the UFO it was not

1162
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:41,449
at all a good guy I mean it was it was

1163
00:47:45,949 --> 00:47:44,400
literally aggressive it was it was

1164
00:47:47,779 --> 00:47:45,959
attacking people you know why when it

1165
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:47,789
comes to a career things frankly my dear

1166
00:47:55,009 --> 00:47:52,559
I don't give it come on gene they're all

1167
00:47:57,049 --> 00:47:55,019
benevolent space brothers well it must

1168
00:47:59,150 --> 00:47:57,059
have been some like weird accident that

1169
00:48:01,959 --> 00:47:59,160
they zapped these poor miners they

1170
00:48:04,939 --> 00:48:01,969
actually hunted down yeah these guys run

1171
00:48:08,859 --> 00:48:04,949
it's like Shanee where he was hunting

1172
00:48:14,829 --> 00:48:12,249
and that's it so basically when this

1173
00:48:18,819 --> 00:48:14,839
happened back in Brazil was Dick Cheney

1174
00:48:22,329 --> 00:48:18,829
there now we're getting into a good

1175
00:48:24,370 --> 00:48:22,339
hypothesis well one of my favorite ones

1176
00:48:26,289 --> 00:48:24,380
of Greer's when he says that when he

1177
00:48:28,420 --> 00:48:26,299
blames the abduction so they have all of

1178
00:48:30,789 --> 00:48:28,430
the phenomena all on the secret

1179
00:48:32,799 --> 00:48:30,799
government to besmirch the name of the

1180
00:48:34,749 --> 00:48:32,809
aliens to give them a bad name that's a

1181
00:48:36,609 --> 00:48:34,759
great conspiracy theory I mean I mean

1182
00:48:38,620 --> 00:48:36,619
they also use Reagan's of course yeah

1183
00:48:40,450 --> 00:48:38,630
they said William Shatner with the

1184
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:40,460
Raygun okay well is it like some sort of

1185
00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:42,049
particle beam yeah the our case is

1186
00:48:45,819 --> 00:48:43,609
actually in Brazil what people really

1187
00:48:48,370 --> 00:48:45,829
really did get hit by a beam there's

1188
00:48:50,709 --> 00:48:48,380
another case in Brazil in the 60s and

1189
00:48:52,029 --> 00:48:50,719
this was fairly well known for those who

1190
00:48:53,890 --> 00:48:52,039
have been in the field for a long time I

1191
00:48:56,410 --> 00:48:53,900
forgot the name of it right now

1192
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:56,420
it was any farm Chris probably remembers

1193
00:49:02,799 --> 00:48:59,119
it in where the UFO landed classical

1194
00:49:04,989 --> 00:49:02,809
disc and three guys came out and the the

1195
00:49:06,749 --> 00:49:04,999
farmer I don't think was the owner but

1196
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:06,759
it was whatever a guy working there I

1197
00:49:11,319 --> 00:49:09,529
grabbed the rifle so in this case the

1198
00:49:13,690 --> 00:49:11,329
aliens were actually self-defense it was

1199
00:49:15,459 --> 00:49:13,700
a human that shot first and then the

1200
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:15,469
aliens shot a beam I have the guy and

1201
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:18,170
hit him and he was dead within three

1202
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:20,450
days there was a book out few years back

1203
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:22,729
shoot him down where they actually

1204
00:49:27,339 --> 00:49:25,249
talked about the US government well

1205
00:49:30,039 --> 00:49:27,349
trying to shoot down a UFO shooting down

1206
00:49:32,529 --> 00:49:30,049
it's a cover of our first issue of open

1207
00:49:34,839 --> 00:49:32,539
minds magazine okay and this is what we

1208
00:49:38,499 --> 00:49:34,849
have is an interview with Milton Taurus

1209
00:49:40,209 --> 00:49:38,509
you know grab your sting who is an Air

1210
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:40,219
Force pilot a retired Air Force pilot

1211
00:49:43,959 --> 00:49:41,690
and he said yes they did have those

1212
00:49:46,209 --> 00:49:43,969
instructions at one time George Knapp

1213
00:49:48,519 --> 00:49:46,219
also says the same in Russia when he

1214
00:49:50,170 --> 00:49:48,529
interviewed a colonel Sokolov who was a

1215
00:49:52,839 --> 00:49:50,180
guy the head of the Ministry of Defense

1216
00:49:54,819 --> 00:49:52,849
secret Commission on UFOs in the 80s

1217
00:49:57,849 --> 00:49:54,829
under the Soviet Union and he said the

1218
00:49:59,529 --> 00:49:57,859
Russians also had this disorder but so

1219
00:50:02,859 --> 00:49:59,539
many of these incidents ended so badly

1220
00:50:04,839 --> 00:50:02,869
in some cases the jet you know crash or

1221
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:04,849
baby barely escaped with his life that

1222
00:50:08,469 --> 00:50:06,650
the new orders were put out it's a did

1223
00:50:11,820 --> 00:50:08,479
you see a you go for get the hell out of

1224
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:16,080
I had a case in 67 where two carloads of

1225
00:50:21,180 --> 00:50:18,490
college students were headed north of

1226
00:50:23,850 --> 00:50:21,190
highway 17 in the San Luis Valley and an

1227
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:23,860
object came down and landed fairly close

1228
00:50:28,980 --> 00:50:26,370
to the highway you know kids being kids

1229
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:28,990
one of these guys who's actually a

1230
00:50:35,060 --> 00:50:32,290
student at Colorado State he got out and

1231
00:50:37,530 --> 00:50:35,070
approached it and he was hit and

1232
00:50:39,690 --> 00:50:37,540
paralyzed and knocked unconscious with a

1233
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:39,700
beam almost like he was getting too

1234
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:41,170
close and it zapped him and then took

1235
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:43,570
off right eye there was a similar case

1236
00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:45,610
and this is a wonderful case wonderful

1237
00:50:49,830 --> 00:50:46,960
innocence that is so well documented

1238
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:49,840
it's known as and I wrote a tie-in fake

1239
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:52,210
on when I had when I was a UFO columnist

1240
00:50:56,670 --> 00:50:54,010
for faith magazine for about 10 years

1241
00:50:59,220 --> 00:50:56,680
was one of my first articles is known as

1242
00:51:01,380 --> 00:50:59,230
a period soon Inga close encounter it

1243
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:01,390
happened in this small city copy rasa

1244
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:04,800
nunca and South Paulo state in 1969 in

1245
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:07,930
AU fallen that classical flying saucer

1246
00:51:12,060 --> 00:51:10,090
don't shape was tripod the whole thing

1247
00:51:14,070 --> 00:51:12,070
it was about 8 o'clock in the morning

1248
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:14,080
according to Earthforce documents he was

1249
00:51:19,290 --> 00:51:16,330
seen by about 500 feet but there was one

1250
00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:19,300
fruit vendor whose name was Thiago Motta

1251
00:51:23,790 --> 00:51:21,760
and he was about a 19 year old he must

1252
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:23,800
have been a very hyper guy and I guess

1253
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:26,290
he wasn't afraid and he went over the

1254
00:51:31,470 --> 00:51:29,530
object ends as a aliens or whatever the

1255
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:31,480
occupants had had levitated out of the

1256
00:51:35,610 --> 00:51:33,610
object and they shot him with a beam but

1257
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:35,620
only on the thigh they only burned him

1258
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:37,330
slightly but enough to knock him down

1259
00:51:41,790 --> 00:51:40,000
and then the UFO took off I believe it

1260
00:51:43,770 --> 00:51:41,800
was a Brazilian Air Force officer that

1261
00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:43,780
speculated that actually they might have

1262
00:51:47,670 --> 00:51:46,000
saved his life because if he had gotten

1263
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:47,680
closer then you could have had gotten

1264
00:51:51,900 --> 00:51:49,810
affected by the field in this case

1265
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:51,910
obviously they didn't want to he only

1266
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:53,770
had like a third-degree burn but he was

1267
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:55,570
taken to the hospital one and there's

1268
00:51:59,220 --> 00:51:57,490
Brazilian Air Force documents about this

1269
00:52:02,280 --> 00:51:59,230
whole incident is there a medical

1270
00:52:03,900 --> 00:52:02,290
analysis as to the injuries the nature

1271
00:52:06,930 --> 00:52:03,910
of the injuries when these people are

1272
00:52:10,740 --> 00:52:06,940
shot by the UFO similar to microwave or

1273
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:10,750
radiation radiation sickness in our

1274
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:12,400
briefing document we go into great

1275
00:52:18,050 --> 00:52:14,530
detail on the Miculek case which is a

1276
00:52:20,660 --> 00:52:18,060
famous Canadian case when this miner

1277
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:20,670
think I came very close to the UFO he

1278
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:22,890
wasn't shot he just was touched touched

1279
00:52:27,980 --> 00:52:26,160
and this thing was funny so he wasn't

1280
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:27,990
like I think what happens to three or

1281
00:52:32,450 --> 00:52:30,480
four lands and it's a it turns off its

1282
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:32,460
engine or something then it you don't

1283
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:34,650
get injured but if the thing is really

1284
00:52:38,450 --> 00:52:36,690
like ready to take off or something it's

1285
00:52:41,870 --> 00:52:38,460
obviously a meeting some kind of field

1286
00:52:42,830 --> 00:52:41,880
and this guy was very sick and he ended

1287
00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:42,840
up in the hospital

1288
00:52:48,140 --> 00:52:45,510
eventually fortunately he recovered but

1289
00:52:49,580 --> 00:52:48,150
there's a whole toss here by the Royal

1290
00:52:52,430 --> 00:52:49,590
Canadian Mounted Police they

1291
00:52:54,260 --> 00:52:52,440
investigated the case so yeah there

1292
00:52:56,090 --> 00:52:54,270
there's some cases where the guy got

1293
00:52:58,160 --> 00:52:56,100
being you know there was a beam that hit

1294
00:53:00,170 --> 00:52:58,170
him in other cases it's just that he

1295
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:00,180
came too close and he got hit by the

1296
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:02,970
field but alright there's some kind of

1297
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:03,930
field yeah

1298
00:53:08,090 --> 00:53:05,610
electromagnetic fields something

1299
00:53:11,390 --> 00:53:08,100
generated by the craft whatever it is

1300
00:53:13,370 --> 00:53:11,400
you get too close you are subjected to

1301
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:13,380
its effects correct remember that also

1302
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:16,050
this happens not just to physiologically

1303
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:18,650
but also to machines right karst all

1304
00:53:23,810 --> 00:53:21,090
radios malfunction you know so again

1305
00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:23,820
there there's some kind of field in

1306
00:53:27,170 --> 00:53:25,920
electromagnetic field even used to be

1307
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:27,180
called remember the electromagnetic

1308
00:53:31,250 --> 00:53:29,610
effect in the old literature night up

1309
00:53:32,990 --> 00:53:31,260
and all that way right and you wonder if

1310
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:33,000
that causes mental effects too there's

1311
00:53:36,380 --> 00:53:34,770
some of the encounters that people have

1312
00:53:38,300 --> 00:53:36,390
are the result of some kind of

1313
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:38,310
electromagnetic please

1314
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:40,530
couldn't you know possibly provoke some

1315
00:53:44,690 --> 00:53:42,480
sort of hallucinatory event in a

1316
00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:44,700
person's mind yeah there's there's this

1317
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:47,310
guy a scientist Persinger probably Chris

1318
00:53:52,130 --> 00:53:49,770
knows about him and you probably heard

1319
00:53:55,820 --> 00:53:52,140
of it was a prominent scientist in

1320
00:53:58,310 --> 00:53:55,830
Canada and he's done it takes people

1321
00:54:00,950 --> 00:53:58,320
inside like puts him inside a machine

1322
00:54:03,530 --> 00:54:00,960
and then he excites certain parts of the

1323
00:54:06,350 --> 00:54:03,540
brain and then people have Virgin Mary

1324
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:06,360
apparitions and alien experiences and

1325
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:08,130
they encounter Bigfoot or whatever it's

1326
00:54:12,830 --> 00:54:10,530
so it's being recreated in the in a

1327
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:12,840
laboratory by just hitting certain parts

1328
00:54:16,570 --> 00:54:14,010
of the brain so then you sometimes

1329
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:16,580
wonder here some people suggest maybe

1330
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:18,720
governments are doing some kind of

1331
00:54:24,140 --> 00:54:21,330
mind-control experimentation so if you

1332
00:54:26,579 --> 00:54:24,150
subject people to electromagnetic

1333
00:54:28,620 --> 00:54:26,589
radiation you can make them

1334
00:54:30,930 --> 00:54:28,630
think if anything happened to them at

1335
00:54:33,390 --> 00:54:30,940
all completely it could be an abduction

1336
00:54:35,789 --> 00:54:33,400
it could be a UFO it could be the Virgin

1337
00:54:38,219 --> 00:54:35,799
Mary no matter what of course for Fatima

1338
00:54:41,279 --> 00:54:38,229
we didn't have electromagnetic radiation

1339
00:54:43,469 --> 00:54:41,289
did we yeah we even have UFO cases going

1340
00:54:46,259 --> 00:54:43,479
back in the past so not everything can

1341
00:54:48,930 --> 00:54:46,269
be explained you know by our technology

1342
00:54:51,359 --> 00:54:48,940
but there are situations where overlaps

1343
00:54:53,309 --> 00:54:51,369
yeah I mean the fact that people are

1344
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:53,319
having these experiences but maybe also

1345
00:55:00,420 --> 00:54:55,690
they can be simulated just makes it more

1346
00:55:02,729 --> 00:55:00,430
complicated mold investigative watering

1347
00:55:05,519 --> 00:55:02,739
by the way that those implants are not

1348
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:05,529
alien technology but earthly technology

1349
00:55:09,479 --> 00:55:07,599
that would explain what's going on there

1350
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:09,489
our governments are engaged in

1351
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:11,920
mind-control experiments well that

1352
00:55:15,660 --> 00:55:13,930
that's many people believe that but you

1353
00:55:18,599 --> 00:55:15,670
also have to ensure you bring the

1354
00:55:20,759 --> 00:55:18,609
government or a conspiracy you also have

1355
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:20,769
to look at the purpose what is the

1356
00:55:25,380 --> 00:55:23,200
purpose and also the logistics you know

1357
00:55:28,259 --> 00:55:25,390
the capabilities for instance one of the

1358
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:28,269
cases I wrote in the in the website or

1359
00:55:31,529 --> 00:55:29,650
well originally had written also in

1360
00:55:34,650 --> 00:55:31,539
faith but it's now in the open minds

1361
00:55:37,729 --> 00:55:34,660
website is the Walski abduction it's a

1362
00:55:41,849 --> 00:55:37,739
fascinating case happen in Poland in

1363
00:55:44,999 --> 00:55:41,859
1978 this was a old farmer it was about

1364
00:55:47,039 --> 00:55:45,009
71 years old at the time he knew nothing

1365
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:47,049
what's beautiful about this case was a

1366
00:55:52,349 --> 00:55:50,170
total lack of knowledge of the guy on it

1367
00:55:53,940 --> 00:55:52,359
was an uncontaminated cases we're never

1368
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:53,950
gonna have another case like that but

1369
00:55:58,589 --> 00:55:55,210
now with the internet and all that

1370
00:56:00,120 --> 00:55:58,599
because he never even read them as alien

1371
00:56:02,069 --> 00:56:00,130
secretary calls them were like weird

1372
00:56:03,749 --> 00:56:02,079
foreigners yeah and everything was even

1373
00:56:05,940 --> 00:56:03,759
the description of the craft is like

1374
00:56:07,859 --> 00:56:05,950
low-tech but however the guy gets

1375
00:56:10,259 --> 00:56:07,869
through a medical examination and the

1376
00:56:11,849 --> 00:56:10,269
whole steps are the same now what are

1377
00:56:14,339 --> 00:56:11,859
you gonna tell me that the CIA or

1378
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:14,349
whatever was going into the Warsaw Pact

1379
00:56:19,859 --> 00:56:16,529
countries and the height of the Cold War

1380
00:56:22,529 --> 00:56:19,869
risking you know World War 3 to abduct

1381
00:56:24,329 --> 00:56:22,539
people and create a fake alien abduction

1382
00:56:26,700 --> 00:56:24,339
that doesn't for one doesn't watch

1383
00:56:28,769 --> 00:56:26,710
doesn't wash you have cases in China

1384
00:56:30,779 --> 00:56:28,779
yeah yeah I see you're in the site if

1385
00:56:32,729 --> 00:56:30,789
you press my name then it will she lists

1386
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:32,739
all the articles then you can get you

1387
00:56:38,190 --> 00:56:34,690
can see this Wolski one ladies and

1388
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:38,200
gentlemen it's open minds TV there's a

1389
00:56:40,740 --> 00:56:38,530
nope

1390
00:56:43,650 --> 00:56:40,750
mine's calm totally differently yeah

1391
00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:43,660
open minds that TV and if you go into

1392
00:56:47,430 --> 00:56:45,730
the list of staff members you can then

1393
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:47,440
check the various articles that he has

1394
00:56:51,390 --> 00:56:49,510
written for this publication don't tell

1395
00:56:54,270 --> 00:56:51,400
our listeners since we mentioned it and

1396
00:56:56,370 --> 00:56:54,280
since you are an editor of open minds

1397
00:56:58,440 --> 00:56:56,380
how does one get a copy well of course

1398
00:57:00,660 --> 00:56:58,450
you can get it through the web by going

1399
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:00,670
to open mind start TV very simple then

1400
00:57:06,330 --> 00:57:02,770
you press magazine and you can subscribe

1401
00:57:09,330 --> 00:57:06,340
or even easier you go to any bars or

1402
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:09,340
novels or borders and you buy there so

1403
00:57:13,380 --> 00:57:11,530
you got good distribution for it then

1404
00:57:14,820 --> 00:57:13,390
yeah we have national distribution at

1405
00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:14,830
least with those two chains

1406
00:57:20,340 --> 00:57:18,430
it's in a few you know metaphysical

1407
00:57:22,860 --> 00:57:20,350
bookstores or places like that but those

1408
00:57:25,470 --> 00:57:22,870
are selected hopefully eventually will

1409
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:25,480
be in airport bookstores and things like

1410
00:57:29,340 --> 00:57:27,490
that but right now any bars are novels

1411
00:57:31,830 --> 00:57:29,350
and borders we'll have it in our

1412
00:57:34,290 --> 00:57:31,840
magazine is bimonthly so we just

1413
00:57:34,830 --> 00:57:34,300
published the first issue and on June

1414
00:57:37,050 --> 00:57:34,840
1st

1415
00:57:38,820 --> 00:57:37,060
the second issue hits and then this of

1416
00:57:41,970 --> 00:57:38,830
course it's only one of the things we do

1417
00:57:43,770 --> 00:57:41,980
we have a very comprehensive website we

1418
00:57:47,250 --> 00:57:43,780
have a radio show which is done by

1419
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:47,260
Alejandro Rojas and we also work in on

1420
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:50,290
TV productions but that's more along the

1421
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:51,730
way you know I mean we are we're in the

1422
00:57:56,940 --> 00:57:54,640
early stages of documenting cases and

1423
00:57:59,730 --> 00:57:56,950
interviewing people but you can see in

1424
00:58:01,710 --> 00:57:59,740
our website short video clips the others

1425
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:01,720
it looks very impressive the production

1426
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:03,610
quality is really well we really top

1427
00:58:07,110 --> 00:58:05,530
show yeah we have Tom Ruffin who works

1428
00:58:09,420 --> 00:58:07,120
on that who used to work for Paramount

1429
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:09,430
so it's definitely a professional so

1430
00:58:13,980 --> 00:58:11,710
some money behind the software yeah yeah

1431
00:58:15,780 --> 00:58:13,990
it's very exciting to it basically what

1432
00:58:19,350 --> 00:58:15,790
we are we're very different from Bigelow

1433
00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:19,360
we are a UFO media company this that

1434
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:21,760
doesn't exist we're the first one we all

1435
00:58:26,430 --> 00:58:23,920
have every aspect of media we have the

1436
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:26,440
web the magazine the radio and the TV

1437
00:58:30,450 --> 00:58:28,720
eventually we also have the conference

1438
00:58:33,150 --> 00:58:30,460
you know the International UFO Congress

1439
00:58:35,130 --> 00:58:33,160
that used to be in Laughlin Nevada that

1440
00:58:37,590 --> 00:58:35,140
was bought by us and now it's going to

1441
00:58:39,690 --> 00:58:37,600
be moved to the Phoenix area in in for

1442
00:58:41,890 --> 00:58:39,700
McDowell beginning in next February so

1443
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:41,900
we bring in quality of

1444
00:58:46,690 --> 00:58:45,050
some of the speakers is believe me we'll

1445
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:46,700
improve all right we'll improve

1446
00:58:51,100 --> 00:58:48,410
well certainly and I can bring up the

1447
00:58:52,900 --> 00:58:51,110
dialogue and without comparing you to a

1448
00:58:55,150 --> 00:58:52,910
certain other newsstand UFO magazine

1449
00:58:57,850 --> 00:58:55,160
what do you think it bring to the field

1450
00:59:00,220 --> 00:58:57,860
well for one thing a professional look

1451
00:59:02,140 --> 00:59:00,230
which was lacking in all even when we

1452
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:02,150
were going back to the pulp publications

1453
00:59:06,220 --> 00:59:04,130
yes they were new spent but they were a

1454
00:59:07,870 --> 00:59:06,230
pope they had no you know they they

1455
00:59:08,350 --> 00:59:07,880
didn't have a decent art department or

1456
00:59:11,260 --> 00:59:08,360
anything

1457
00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:11,270
ours looks very professionally made also

1458
00:59:15,580 --> 00:59:13,520
we're trying to be a little bit more

1459
00:59:18,430 --> 00:59:15,590
serious you know not filter a little bit

1460
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:18,440
the material unlike the other you have

1461
00:59:23,230 --> 00:59:20,090
for magazine there we don't have

1462
00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:23,240
colonists it's all like feature stories

1463
00:59:27,190 --> 00:59:25,280
we do have of course a new section and a

1464
00:59:28,870 --> 00:59:27,200
review section and you know those kinds

1465
00:59:31,570 --> 00:59:28,880
of features we don't have all these

1466
00:59:33,460 --> 00:59:31,580
endless you know freebies where people

1467
00:59:34,930 --> 00:59:33,470
get to vent you know their opinions and

1468
00:59:37,690 --> 00:59:34,940
that are that because what we're trying

1469
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:37,700
to do is not go to their your your you

1470
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:39,170
know a few thousand people weren't to

1471
00:59:42,940 --> 00:59:40,850
follow you of course there are natural

1472
00:59:45,730 --> 00:59:42,950
market we want to go to the public out

1473
00:59:47,890 --> 00:59:45,740
there to the big public that's our goal

1474
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:47,900
so you don't want to be just in the UFO

1475
00:59:51,970 --> 00:59:49,970
field I mean we wanted to increase the

1476
00:59:54,790 --> 00:59:51,980
audience so for that you have to produce

1477
00:59:55,090 --> 00:59:54,800
a good looking publication in a serious

1478
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:55,100
one

1479
00:59:59,350 --> 00:59:57,410
we have Antonio who Nassar co-host as

1480
01:00:03,900 --> 00:59:59,360
Christopher O'Brien will be back on the

1481
01:00:10,049 --> 01:00:06,990
so Frank what do you think about it UFOs

1482
01:00:12,599 --> 01:00:10,059
I saw one once I think they're out there

1483
01:00:13,829 --> 01:00:12,609
know what they are I don't know well I

1484
01:00:15,509 --> 01:00:13,839
believe that something is out there I

1485
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:15,519
think that those things that you see in

1486
01:00:19,559 --> 01:00:17,650
the sky are only one small manifestation

1487
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:19,569
of a whole wide range of phenomena that

1488
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:22,480
people haven't properly named or have

1489
01:00:29,700 --> 01:00:27,970
attributed the wrong source to welcome

1490
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:29,710
back to the parrot house with Jean

1491
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:39,310
we returned with Antonio who Naas our

1492
01:00:42,970 --> 01:00:41,090
co-host is Christopher O'Brien and

1493
01:00:45,190 --> 01:00:42,980
Antonio in addition to all the many

1494
01:00:47,980 --> 01:00:45,200
thousands of other things he's done also

1495
01:00:50,860 --> 01:00:47,990
has made an extensive study of UFOs in

1496
01:00:53,020 --> 01:00:50,870
historical times and going back to that

1497
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:53,030
particular subject we haven't explored

1498
01:00:57,100 --> 01:00:55,610
that too much on power cast and I think

1499
01:00:59,800 --> 01:00:57,110
we've only had one or two guess where we

1500
01:01:02,260 --> 01:00:59,810
go really far back but the stuff that we

1501
01:01:05,380 --> 01:01:02,270
maybe have heard about in Chariots of

1502
01:01:07,150 --> 01:01:05,390
the Gods von Daniken what does that look

1503
01:01:10,060 --> 01:01:07,160
like to you is that a possibility that

1504
01:01:13,330 --> 01:01:10,070
there were ancient astronauts yeah I

1505
01:01:16,030 --> 01:01:13,340
think so in fact the last articles I did

1506
01:01:18,730 --> 01:01:16,040
for our website the open mind stuktv I

1507
01:01:22,630 --> 01:01:18,740
just posted it I was a two-part series

1508
01:01:25,870 --> 01:01:22,640
on UFO incidents in ancient China the

1509
01:01:28,870 --> 01:01:25,880
first article dealt more like with the

1510
01:01:31,450 --> 01:01:28,880
legendary parts of legendary China but

1511
01:01:34,510 --> 01:01:31,460
then he moved into more not so ancient

1512
01:01:37,050 --> 01:01:34,520
times we had a case there by a medieval

1513
01:01:40,900 --> 01:01:37,060
poet and medieval poet and philosopher

1514
01:01:43,210 --> 01:01:40,910
Liu Yin who had a remarkable UFO

1515
01:01:45,670 --> 01:01:43,220
sighting and then on the second part I

1516
01:01:48,610 --> 01:01:45,680
deal specifically with cases during the

1517
01:01:50,410 --> 01:01:48,620
ming dynasty which ruled China between

1518
01:01:53,350 --> 01:01:50,420
the thirteen hundreds and the sixteen

1519
01:01:55,900 --> 01:01:53,360
hundreds so we're dealing you know

1520
01:01:58,570 --> 01:01:55,910
relatively more recent historical times

1521
01:02:00,760 --> 01:01:58,580
by definitely historical times and in

1522
01:02:02,620 --> 01:02:00,770
fact we have a case there which is

1523
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:02,630
interesting because in the first hour we

1524
01:02:07,540 --> 01:02:04,490
were talking about cases where well

1525
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:07,550
injury in this particular incident is

1526
01:02:12,940 --> 01:02:10,130
about a UFO or they don't call it of

1527
01:02:16,420 --> 01:02:12,950
course a UFO a ship that was floating

1528
01:02:19,270 --> 01:02:16,430
over the clouds which landed and it

1529
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:19,280
paralyzed the witnesses and then the guy

1530
01:02:26,020 --> 01:02:22,250
that got the closer died for unexplained

1531
01:02:29,620 --> 01:02:26,030
reasons within several days and this is

1532
01:02:31,330 --> 01:02:29,630
in a report written in the in the 1500

1533
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:31,340
the or this case I believe it happened

1534
01:02:35,410 --> 01:02:33,770
in 1523 or something like that and they

1535
01:02:38,620 --> 01:02:35,420
author lived in the 17th century

1536
01:02:41,770 --> 01:02:38,630
of course historical cases are there's a

1537
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:41,780
plus and a con the plus is that they're

1538
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:45,170
not tainted sociologically by any of the

1539
01:02:48,250 --> 01:02:47,930
modern mythology of aliens and science

1540
01:02:50,170 --> 01:02:48,260
fiction

1541
01:02:51,670 --> 01:02:50,180
and all that right and also they come

1542
01:02:54,700 --> 01:02:51,680
from a period where there was no

1543
01:02:56,050 --> 01:02:54,710
aviation except most balloons or

1544
01:02:59,350 --> 01:02:56,060
something that in balloons only in the

1545
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:59,360
18th century so you can still talk about

1546
01:03:02,970 --> 01:03:01,280
maybe natural phenomena or other

1547
01:03:05,230 --> 01:03:02,980
explanations but certainly any

1548
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:05,240
artificial machine gets ruled out

1549
01:03:09,130 --> 01:03:06,770
automatically because there were none

1550
01:03:11,620 --> 01:03:09,140
right in the Middle Ages or whatever but

1551
01:03:14,170 --> 01:03:11,630
on the other hand the the con it's like

1552
01:03:15,550 --> 01:03:14,180
I mean you can investigate by reading

1553
01:03:17,830 --> 01:03:15,560
documents and things like that but

1554
01:03:20,110 --> 01:03:17,840
obviously the people are long dead so

1555
01:03:21,850 --> 01:03:20,120
there's no way of of interviewing

1556
01:03:23,890 --> 01:03:21,860
witnesses it seems like that you just

1557
01:03:26,020 --> 01:03:23,900
did you only have what you have which is

1558
01:03:28,900 --> 01:03:26,030
usually written accounts or in some

1559
01:03:31,570 --> 01:03:28,910
cases you also have paintings and there

1560
01:03:33,100 --> 01:03:31,580
or miniatures or whatever and there are

1561
01:03:35,860 --> 01:03:33,110
as you probably seen them you know

1562
01:03:37,810 --> 01:03:35,870
there's quite a number of firm mostly

1563
01:03:40,780 --> 01:03:37,820
from the Renaissance a few from medieval

1564
01:03:43,270 --> 01:03:40,790
periods in fact in the briefing document

1565
01:03:47,230 --> 01:03:43,280
we had the most famous one which is the

1566
01:03:49,510 --> 01:03:47,240
the Madonna with baby Jesus and baby st.

1567
01:03:52,150 --> 01:03:49,520
John which is at the Palazzo Vecchio in

1568
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:52,160
Florence which I actually saw it with my

1569
01:03:57,130 --> 01:03:54,410
own eyes finally I already written about

1570
01:03:58,960 --> 01:03:57,140
that that case and it's a remarkable

1571
01:04:00,880 --> 01:03:58,970
where you see I'm sure you've seen a

1572
01:04:03,190 --> 01:04:00,890
gene where you see the the person

1573
01:04:04,690 --> 01:04:03,200
looking at the UFO and if the person is

1574
01:04:07,180 --> 01:04:04,700
like this you know with this hand and

1575
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:07,190
the dog there's a dog and the dog is

1576
01:04:11,620 --> 01:04:09,770
also looking at the UFO and this thing

1577
01:04:16,030 --> 01:04:11,630
really looks like a UFO and this

1578
01:04:18,820 --> 01:04:16,040
painting is from the late 1400s and it's

1579
01:04:20,890 --> 01:04:18,830
certainly a real real painting I mean

1580
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:20,900
there's there's no dispute about none of

1581
01:04:25,300 --> 01:04:22,730
these paintings you can interpret them

1582
01:04:27,490 --> 01:04:25,310
there's the other one which is by a

1583
01:04:30,250 --> 01:04:27,500
painter called Salim bene which is at a

1584
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:30,260
church in somewhere in Italy I forgot

1585
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:32,570
right now where when you I'm sure you've

1586
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:34,730
seen it too where the object looks like

1587
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:37,610
a Sputnik it's it's a perfect metallic

1588
01:04:42,550 --> 01:04:41,330
ball with spikes and it's right next to

1589
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:42,560
the Holy Trinity

1590
01:04:48,730 --> 01:04:46,130
you see God the Father Jesus and the

1591
01:04:50,410 --> 01:04:48,740
Holy Spirit as a bird but clearly this

1592
01:04:52,660 --> 01:04:50,420
is not the Holy Spirit because you see

1593
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:52,670
the bird and then you see this in both

1594
01:04:57,700 --> 01:04:55,610
Jesus and Godfather are holding one of

1595
01:05:00,400 --> 01:04:57,710
the spikes of this

1596
01:05:02,140 --> 01:05:00,410
put Nick type object so what is that so

1597
01:05:03,970 --> 01:05:02,150
yes there is there's definitely an

1598
01:05:06,250 --> 01:05:03,980
argument that this is not a new

1599
01:05:09,730 --> 01:05:06,260
phenomenon again you see it in different

1600
01:05:11,770 --> 01:05:09,740
cultures of course far back we go yeah

1601
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:11,780
yeah there's of course the biblical way

1602
01:05:17,890 --> 01:05:15,410
you know the Ezekiel sir vision very

1603
01:05:21,970 --> 01:05:17,900
famous where he describes a wheel within

1604
01:05:24,579 --> 01:05:21,980
a wheel and so on there's a Elisha who

1605
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:24,589
according to the Bible was taken into by

1606
01:05:29,230 --> 01:05:27,050
God into a chariot and off he went into

1607
01:05:32,260 --> 01:05:29,240
the skies and was never seen again

1608
01:05:34,329 --> 01:05:32,270
and so biblical times there's of course

1609
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:34,339
of course the books by is like Araya

1610
01:05:39,579 --> 01:05:37,130
Sitchin about the Sumerian mythology

1611
01:05:42,849 --> 01:05:39,589
that's as old as he gets you know in

1612
01:05:44,109 --> 01:05:42,859
terms of cultures civilizations so in

1613
01:05:45,700 --> 01:05:44,119
the previous week's show we have Jim

1614
01:05:48,700 --> 01:05:45,710
Mosley we were talking about the book

1615
01:05:50,740 --> 01:05:48,710
about contactees by Nicolas Redfern but

1616
01:05:52,690 --> 01:05:50,750
the first part of George Adamski book

1617
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:52,700
flying saucers have landed his first

1618
01:05:56,620 --> 01:05:54,530
book where he talks about meeting the

1619
01:05:58,300 --> 01:05:56,630
Venusians in the desert the first part

1620
01:06:01,510 --> 01:05:58,310
was written by Desmond Leslie directly

1621
01:06:03,310 --> 01:06:01,520
and it was about ancient astronauts yeah

1622
01:06:05,500 --> 01:06:03,320
I meant that's when Leslie I met him

1623
01:06:07,750 --> 01:06:05,510
once I did I one of the symposiums in

1624
01:06:08,530 --> 01:06:07,760
the Republic of San Marino in Italy and

1625
01:06:09,940 --> 01:06:08,540
you're right

1626
01:06:12,940 --> 01:06:09,950
the first part are nothing to do with

1627
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:12,950
Adamski and he dealt among other things

1628
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:15,530
and he was probably one of the first he

1629
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:17,330
dealt with the Vimanas and the Vimanas

1630
01:06:23,290 --> 01:06:20,650
are these flying machines basically

1631
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:23,300
flying cars I think that's the way you

1632
01:06:28,180 --> 01:06:25,490
if you translate them exactly it means

1633
01:06:30,790 --> 01:06:28,190
flying car they are in Indian mythology

1634
01:06:32,589 --> 01:06:30,800
if you read the Mahabharata or the

1635
01:06:34,570 --> 01:06:32,599
Ramayana you know the great epics of

1636
01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:34,580
Asian Indians even give instructions on

1637
01:06:40,030 --> 01:06:37,520
how to build oh yeah yeah they of course

1638
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:40,040
Childress you know reprinted this famous

1639
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:42,890
book called the romanika sastra what was

1640
01:06:47,500 --> 01:06:44,810
this you know in the article I did about

1641
01:06:49,870 --> 01:06:47,510
China to their reports about the first

1642
01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:49,880
the Yellow Emperor the first Chinese

1643
01:06:54,609 --> 01:06:52,160
emperor there were people who were doing

1644
01:06:56,829 --> 01:06:54,619
chariots supposedly I mean of course

1645
01:06:59,200 --> 01:06:56,839
when you go deep into this ology

1646
01:07:01,089 --> 01:06:59,210
it's you know it's hard to where you

1647
01:07:03,670 --> 01:07:01,099
draw the line right words mythology

1648
01:07:04,930 --> 01:07:03,680
worse things happen really but even if

1649
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:04,940
things didn't happen

1650
01:07:08,740 --> 01:07:06,890
it's like our science fiction the ideas

1651
01:07:10,930 --> 01:07:08,750
still came from somewhere right even if

1652
01:07:12,970 --> 01:07:10,940
it's a fictional account it's knowing

1653
01:07:14,590 --> 01:07:12,980
the guy is inspired by something of

1654
01:07:16,990 --> 01:07:14,600
course we also have the movie Stargate

1655
01:07:20,110 --> 01:07:17,000
where they go to the Stargate to another

1656
01:07:23,740 --> 01:07:20,120
galaxy right but the theory being that

1657
01:07:26,590 --> 01:07:23,750
in ancient times these evil beings yeah

1658
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:26,600
other planets came here and enslaved us

1659
01:07:29,980 --> 01:07:27,290
yeah

1660
01:07:32,590 --> 01:07:29,990
well the original Stargate which was a

1661
01:07:34,390 --> 01:07:32,600
movie then became the TV sister yeah the

1662
01:07:36,700 --> 01:07:34,400
movie with James Spader

1663
01:07:37,510 --> 01:07:36,710
I heard rustle yeah and then you had the

1664
01:07:40,690 --> 01:07:37,520
TV version

1665
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:40,700
yeah with Richard II Stargate sg-1 and

1666
01:07:48,430 --> 01:07:46,160
now it's targeted biology but mostly the

1667
01:07:50,470 --> 01:07:48,440
inspiration for the original movie not

1668
01:07:52,780 --> 01:07:50,480
the Stargate idea because that's never

1669
01:07:55,540 --> 01:07:52,790
incision but the idea of the Asian Gods

1670
01:07:57,280 --> 01:07:55,550
coming and sealing mankind they took

1671
01:07:59,110 --> 01:07:57,290
that from section basically there is

1672
01:08:01,090 --> 01:07:59,120
even in the beginning of the movie the

1673
01:08:03,070 --> 01:08:01,100
old movie the one with spider where he's

1674
01:08:05,350 --> 01:08:03,080
an archaeologist and he's talking about

1675
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:05,360
in this inscription in the in the

1676
01:08:08,650 --> 01:08:07,010
Khufu's pyramid that's straight from

1677
01:08:10,830 --> 01:08:08,660
sitches book they just didn't give me

1678
01:08:16,390 --> 01:08:14,740
everybody but the Stargate concept is

1679
01:08:19,330 --> 01:08:16,400
there any historical reference for that

1680
01:08:22,480 --> 01:08:19,340
not that I'm aware of course you do have

1681
01:08:24,700 --> 01:08:22,490
like teleportation type things yes but

1682
01:08:26,370 --> 01:08:24,710
not with you not with a v8 you know

1683
01:08:29,710 --> 01:08:26,380
where someone goes through a device

1684
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:29,720
basically there are stories were the in

1685
01:08:33,670 --> 01:08:32,690
folklore in the Irish Celtic formulas

1686
01:08:36,610 --> 01:08:33,680
like that

1687
01:08:38,230 --> 01:08:36,620
yeah very abduction like phenomena and

1688
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:38,240
this was pointed out by Jacques Vallee

1689
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:40,960
in passport to Magana where a lot of the

1690
01:08:46,180 --> 01:08:43,520
similarities then people get taken into

1691
01:08:48,460 --> 01:08:46,190
inside a cave and they're buried

1692
01:08:51,190 --> 01:08:48,470
treasure or whatever and but they never

1693
01:08:53,440 --> 01:08:51,200
walk there they saw the the supernatural

1694
01:08:56,190 --> 01:08:53,450
being or them or the wizard or whoever

1695
01:09:00,880 --> 01:08:56,200
and boom next thing they are inside

1696
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:00,890
another situation so this is similar

1697
01:09:06,130 --> 01:09:03,650
fine dilation element 2 which is very

1698
01:09:08,590 --> 01:09:06,140
intriguing right yes there is a time

1699
01:09:10,630 --> 01:09:08,600
dilation even even in the Koran you know

1700
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:10,640
there's a famous night journey of MA or

1701
01:09:16,060 --> 01:09:13,010
the Prophet Mohammed it's a famous

1702
01:09:20,290 --> 01:09:16,070
chapter in the Quran where he basically

1703
01:09:22,570 --> 01:09:20,300
gets taken the angel Gabriel the

1704
01:09:25,150 --> 01:09:22,580
Archangel Gabriel comes to him which is

1705
01:09:26,950 --> 01:09:25,160
sort of his intermediary you know for

1706
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:26,960
how the Quran was revealed supposedly

1707
01:09:33,970 --> 01:09:31,010
and then he goes into a flying creature

1708
01:09:36,490 --> 01:09:33,980
which the Quran calls the black and the

1709
01:09:39,430 --> 01:09:36,500
black is basically some kind of horse

1710
01:09:40,870 --> 01:09:39,440
but that flies but it doesn't have the

1711
01:09:41,460 --> 01:09:40,880
face of a horse and they're very

1712
01:09:43,690 --> 01:09:41,470
beautiful

1713
01:09:46,690 --> 01:09:43,700
representations of this and medieval

1714
01:09:50,020 --> 01:09:46,700
Islamic natures and basically Muhammad

1715
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:50,030
gets taken to heaven where he gets the

1716
01:09:54,850 --> 01:09:52,370
gimmick tour of heaven then he gets

1717
01:09:56,770 --> 01:09:54,860
returned and this presumably took hours

1718
01:09:58,090 --> 01:09:56,780
because you know he they taken to

1719
01:10:00,580 --> 01:09:58,100
different places and they show him

1720
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:00,590
different stuff then he gets back to his

1721
01:10:05,980 --> 01:10:03,770
house where the bed was still worn it's

1722
01:10:07,870 --> 01:10:05,990
a wonderful little detail so again

1723
01:10:10,180 --> 01:10:07,880
that's time relation the guy might have

1724
01:10:11,740 --> 01:10:10,190
which we encountered in some UFO cases

1725
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:11,750
where the guy might have experienced

1726
01:10:17,020 --> 01:10:13,970
ours we started our show right with the

1727
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:17,030
Chilean case days maybe and then in in

1728
01:10:22,270 --> 01:10:19,280
our time space-time continuum

1729
01:10:24,010 --> 01:10:22,280
only like nothing happened opposite to

1730
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:24,020
the rip van winkle where he goes to

1731
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:25,520
sleep and things he just sleeps for a

1732
01:10:30,250 --> 01:10:26,930
little while and 20 years have gone by

1733
01:10:32,830 --> 01:10:30,260
yeah is he any older after 20 years no

1734
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:32,840
no okay he is not that's not a bad thing

1735
01:10:39,130 --> 01:10:36,890
to do I think you know 20 years and

1736
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:39,140
maybe at that point in time we've

1737
01:10:43,570 --> 01:10:41,570
invented warp drive well that's what

1738
01:10:44,980 --> 01:10:43,580
happened to River and Winkle he he goes

1739
01:10:47,140 --> 01:10:44,990
to sleep when you still do in the

1740
01:10:49,030 --> 01:10:47,150
British and then when he wakes up he ran

1741
01:10:51,130 --> 01:10:49,040
right into a bar and he says where's the

1742
01:10:53,110 --> 01:10:51,140
painting of George the third because he

1743
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:53,120
sees a George there but it's George

1744
01:10:57,610 --> 01:10:55,130
Washington so they almost lynched him of

1745
01:11:00,640 --> 01:10:57,620
course because they remember

1746
01:11:02,170 --> 01:11:00,650
shorts were the dwarf type beans that

1747
01:11:03,910 --> 01:11:02,180
we're doing bullying ninepins in

1748
01:11:05,650 --> 01:11:03,920
dripping Winkle you know I mean that's

1749
01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:05,660
in the Hudson Valley where we've had a

1750
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:07,490
lot of weird stuff that is a science

1751
01:11:09,940 --> 01:11:09,410
fiction story yeah we don't think of it

1752
01:11:14,260 --> 01:11:09,950
that way

1753
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:14,270
no but it's a great story he had it some

1754
01:11:23,290 --> 01:11:22,640
some got a clever idea where hey

1755
01:11:24,940 --> 01:11:23,300
neighbors

1756
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:24,950
would you like to see the power cast

1757
01:11:28,870 --> 01:11:26,570
live long and prosper

1758
01:11:31,210 --> 01:11:28,880
well if you know of anyone who wants to

1759
01:11:33,370 --> 01:11:31,220
advertise their products or services on

1760
01:11:36,130 --> 01:11:33,380
the power cast have them contact us

1761
01:11:39,940 --> 01:11:36,140
directly tell them to write to sales at

1762
01:11:42,670 --> 01:11:39,950
the para cast comm vex sales at the para

1763
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:42,680
cast come and we also accept your

1764
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:45,290
donations by paypal send your PayPal

1765
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:48,050
donation to the same address sales at

1766
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:51,170
Lapera cast combat sales at the power

1767
01:12:17,260 --> 01:11:53,850
cast calm and thanks for listening

1768
01:12:17,270 --> 01:12:26,859
[Music]

1769
01:12:33,050 --> 01:12:30,200
we have cause christopher Bryan with

1770
01:12:35,450 --> 01:12:33,060
Antonio who næss he's an editor of open

1771
01:12:42,649 --> 01:12:35,460
minds magazine new publication she go to

1772
01:12:45,050 --> 01:12:42,659
openminds.tv/radio and flying saucers

1773
01:12:49,490 --> 01:12:45,060
have landed the stuff written by the

1774
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:49,500
late neon the fourtner tourettes realism

1775
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:52,080
as an historical doctrine talking about

1776
01:12:57,740 --> 01:12:55,530
the gods or God the other Bible was

1777
01:13:00,200 --> 01:12:57,750
really ET of course the religions don't

1778
01:13:02,870 --> 01:13:00,210
want to hear that but what sort of

1779
01:13:04,750 --> 01:13:02,880
evidence that we see for it well like I

1780
01:13:07,100 --> 01:13:04,760
mentioned before we don't see

1781
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:07,110
unfortunately we have not discovered you

1782
01:13:12,260 --> 01:13:09,210
know the physical remains of the vimana

1783
01:13:14,359 --> 01:13:12,270
or a flying chariot and if it's hard

1784
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:14,369
enough to get modern flying saucers you

1785
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:16,320
know that supposedly crash and they

1786
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:18,330
can't retreat imagine something that

1787
01:13:22,340 --> 01:13:20,400
that landed a crash you know five

1788
01:13:25,939 --> 01:13:22,350
thousand years ago so that we are likely

1789
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:25,949
to get but you have to basically study

1790
01:13:31,820 --> 01:13:29,130
the text and in some cases they I cannot

1791
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:31,830
Rafi the illustrations and there's no

1792
01:13:36,260 --> 01:13:33,810
question that there is a sky lore that

1793
01:13:38,330 --> 01:13:36,270
the ark there are references to the

1794
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:38,340
heavens and people that live in the

1795
01:13:44,180 --> 01:13:41,730
heavens who are superior to us who come

1796
01:13:46,939 --> 01:13:44,190
and do what they want pretty much with

1797
01:13:48,919 --> 01:13:46,949
humans and sometimes some humans get are

1798
01:13:53,620 --> 01:13:48,929
privileged and they get taken to see a

1799
01:13:56,330 --> 01:13:53,630
tour of the heaven so this is worldwide

1800
01:13:59,500 --> 01:13:56,340
this is consistent with just about even

1801
01:14:02,390 --> 01:13:59,510
like anthropologist fool the done like

1802
01:14:04,399 --> 01:14:02,400
obscure or more obscure tribes well one

1803
01:14:06,709 --> 01:14:04,409
of the more fascinating accounts is the

1804
01:14:08,359 --> 01:14:06,719
serious mystery robert temple remember

1805
01:14:11,390 --> 01:14:08,369
wrote that book called a serious mystery

1806
01:14:15,020 --> 01:14:11,400
old on the Dogon tribe in Mali and they

1807
01:14:16,220 --> 01:14:15,030
had an entire lore about not only and

1808
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:16,230
they even had an astronomical

1809
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:19,530
information about Mali who hadn't even

1810
01:14:25,129 --> 01:14:22,170
been confirmed by astronomy until like

1811
01:14:27,140 --> 01:14:25,139
that that it is a twin star system that

1812
01:14:29,300 --> 01:14:27,150
was not known until the late 19th

1813
01:14:32,660 --> 01:14:29,310
century and supposedly some of this Lord

1814
01:14:35,330 --> 01:14:32,670
goes centuries back so there is a you

1815
01:14:37,310 --> 01:14:35,340
know if you even think of it Carl Sagan

1816
01:14:38,330 --> 01:14:37,320
who's not a particularly friend of UFOs

1817
01:14:40,729 --> 01:14:38,340
but he wrote if

1818
01:14:43,459 --> 01:14:40,739
spoke with the Russian astrophysicist

1819
01:14:45,410 --> 01:14:43,469
shriek Oskie calling I think intelligent

1820
01:14:49,010 --> 01:14:45,420
life in the universe published in the

1821
01:14:51,530 --> 01:14:49,020
1960s and in this book he has one

1822
01:14:54,140 --> 01:14:51,540
chapter about were we contacted in

1823
01:14:56,359 --> 01:14:54,150
ancient times and he basically you know

1824
01:14:59,300 --> 01:14:56,369
the bank's a lot of them but then he

1825
01:15:01,010 --> 01:14:59,310
senses a series of parameters or one

1826
01:15:05,330 --> 01:15:01,020
would have happen if the case was real

1827
01:15:07,850 --> 01:15:05,340
and then he analyzes the the mythology

1828
01:15:11,300 --> 01:15:07,860
or the legends about an amphibious being

1829
01:15:13,370 --> 01:15:11,310
in Sumerian mythology colonics and he

1830
01:15:16,189 --> 01:15:13,380
references various texts and all that

1831
01:15:18,649 --> 01:15:16,199
and what honest did and he landed in the

1832
01:15:21,220 --> 01:15:18,659
in the Gulf there and gave them

1833
01:15:23,689 --> 01:15:21,230
civilization and writing whatever and

1834
01:15:26,270 --> 01:15:23,699
sailing and she coughs key then

1835
01:15:28,939 --> 01:15:26,280
basically conclude in that chapter that

1836
01:15:30,919 --> 01:15:28,949
this case is probably real this is Carl

1837
01:15:32,899 --> 01:15:30,929
Sagan it's not something he repeated

1838
01:15:34,850 --> 01:15:32,909
very often after that but if you read

1839
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:34,860
the actual chapter it's there well of

1840
01:15:40,550 --> 01:15:36,810
course the Richard shaver legend has it

1841
01:15:43,310 --> 01:15:40,560
that many centuries ago we have this

1842
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:43,320
advanced race who came from stars who

1843
01:15:48,109 --> 01:15:45,210
landed here and because of various

1844
01:15:50,419 --> 01:15:48,119
conditions on earth they left except for

1845
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:50,429
a subset of their race right the

1846
01:15:54,890 --> 01:15:52,770
abandoned eros who became the DeRose and

1847
01:15:56,540 --> 01:15:54,900
heroes who lived in the caverns but

1848
01:15:58,820 --> 01:15:56,550
again it's the same red legend that say

1849
01:16:00,470 --> 01:15:58,830
we had advanced civilization and maybe

1850
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:00,480
that's part of it too could there have

1851
01:16:05,149 --> 01:16:03,090
been an advanced civilization that

1852
01:16:06,500 --> 01:16:05,159
flourished on earth thousands of years

1853
01:16:08,780 --> 01:16:06,510
ago and because of some kind of

1854
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:08,790
Cataclysm the civilization was destroyed

1855
01:16:14,990 --> 01:16:12,210
we only hear about it in legend right at

1856
01:16:17,390 --> 01:16:15,000
lances and all that it's very possible

1857
01:16:19,910 --> 01:16:17,400
the other one that in this was fiction

1858
01:16:23,570 --> 01:16:19,920
but he but he created his own mythology

1859
01:16:25,850 --> 01:16:23,580
and a very strong stuff Lovecraft right

1860
01:16:28,310 --> 01:16:25,860
HP Lovecraft and he remember he talked

1861
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:28,320
about the Asian ones and the ancient

1862
01:16:32,660 --> 01:16:30,570
ones the cultic fool and all this the

1863
01:16:36,140 --> 01:16:32,670
ancient ones were the ones that were

1864
01:16:39,109 --> 01:16:36,150
there and and then something happened oh

1865
01:16:41,750 --> 01:16:39,119
they still are embedded somewhere in the

1866
01:16:42,379 --> 01:16:41,760
deep you rock or something you know the

1867
01:16:44,330 --> 01:16:42,389
look

1868
01:16:46,939 --> 01:16:44,340
yeah except that occasionally they put

1869
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:46,949
our interests riyals yeah hey in that

1870
01:16:52,609 --> 01:16:49,530
could be could be of course you know

1871
01:16:54,260 --> 01:16:52,619
John keel who you know you knew and you

1872
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:54,270
know I was friends with he thought that

1873
01:16:57,649 --> 01:16:55,290
this thing was not at all

1874
01:16:59,689 --> 01:16:57,659
extraterrestrial but it was a much more

1875
01:17:01,430 --> 01:16:59,699
closer to our environment he talked of

1876
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:01,440
ultra terrestrials of course I think Mac

1877
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:04,290
Tony's wrote about crypto terrestrials

1878
01:17:09,379 --> 01:17:06,810
there here yeah he would explain one

1879
01:17:11,689 --> 01:17:09,389
thing it would explain the the amounts

1880
01:17:13,700 --> 01:17:11,699
of the experiences because a you know

1881
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:13,710
now we wouldn't be talking about someone

1882
01:17:17,660 --> 01:17:16,050
what to come across the galaxy although

1883
01:17:19,729 --> 01:17:17,670
if they did have some kind of like

1884
01:17:21,590 --> 01:17:19,739
Stargate then it wouldn't be a big deal

1885
01:17:23,930 --> 01:17:21,600
you know for them to travel anyway oh

1886
01:17:25,870 --> 01:17:23,940
what a nice little ship that would be we

1887
01:17:27,950 --> 01:17:25,880
wouldn't have to worry about warp eight

1888
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:27,960
wouldn't have to worry about dilithium

1889
01:17:32,090 --> 01:17:30,210
crystals captain because this is what

1890
01:17:33,979 --> 01:17:32,100
used to bother you know if I Nick and

1891
01:17:35,450 --> 01:17:33,989
they all you know the more the

1892
01:17:37,729 --> 01:17:35,460
especially astronomers are always

1893
01:17:40,669 --> 01:17:37,739
complaining not about the possibility of

1894
01:17:42,379 --> 01:17:40,679
life in space because most even the even

1895
01:17:44,750 --> 01:17:42,389
the skeptics now mostly believe in that

1896
01:17:47,300 --> 01:17:44,760
that they're sure this must be life but

1897
01:17:49,430 --> 01:17:47,310
that that lies because of the distances

1898
01:17:51,410 --> 01:17:49,440
are coming here but to me that's a false

1899
01:17:53,570 --> 01:17:51,420
argument because if we're dealing with

1900
01:17:55,790 --> 01:17:53,580
some civilization that's been let's say

1901
01:17:57,680 --> 01:17:55,800
half a million years remember the old

1902
01:17:59,540 --> 01:17:57,690
principle of arthur c clarke any

1903
01:18:02,959 --> 01:17:59,550
technology that we don't understand this

1904
01:18:04,879 --> 01:18:02,969
magic so look at how we have advanced in

1905
01:18:07,910 --> 01:18:04,889
a hundred years and two hundred years i

1906
01:18:09,470 --> 01:18:07,920
mean the stuff we can do now right if

1907
01:18:11,810 --> 01:18:09,480
you live in the eighteenth century we

1908
01:18:13,669 --> 01:18:11,820
would look totally unbelievable and yet

1909
01:18:15,919 --> 01:18:13,679
in only two hundred years we've done

1910
01:18:18,740 --> 01:18:15,929
that okay so i have in my hand an iphone

1911
01:18:19,729 --> 01:18:18,750
okay me and 45 million other people i

1912
01:18:24,050 --> 01:18:19,739
have an iphone

1913
01:18:25,700 --> 01:18:24,060
take that back a hundred years 1910 what

1914
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:25,710
the heck would they do with it there's

1915
01:18:28,790 --> 01:18:27,330
no cell know there's no cell phone

1916
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:28,800
network they don't know anything about

1917
01:18:32,359 --> 01:18:30,210
integrated circuits they could possibly

1918
01:18:33,950 --> 01:18:32,369
get a thing to turn on but the battery

1919
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:33,960
is going to disappear in five or six

1920
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:35,610
hours which creates an interesting

1921
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:38,690
question with the whole concept of

1922
01:18:42,979 --> 01:18:41,010
back-engineering you know so let's say

1923
01:18:44,930 --> 01:18:42,989
that it's assumed that the roswell or

1924
01:18:46,399 --> 01:18:44,940
any other value the incidents at least

1925
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:46,409
some of them are true and the government

1926
01:18:50,450 --> 01:18:48,330
did recover stuff and they're trying to

1927
01:18:51,890 --> 01:18:50,460
duplicate it depends on how advanced

1928
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:51,900
these people are you know

1929
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:53,250
they're just a little bit more advanced

1930
01:18:57,050 --> 01:18:55,410
than us maybe we could get somewhere but

1931
01:18:59,000 --> 01:18:57,060
it's there if it's totally like you're

1932
01:19:01,130 --> 01:18:59,010
saying now like there are now 400 years

1933
01:19:03,500 --> 01:19:01,140
ago they can break down that metal

1934
01:19:05,780 --> 01:19:03,510
million times but how they're gonna get

1935
01:19:06,980 --> 01:19:05,790
the shape the thing working probably not

1936
01:19:08,420 --> 01:19:06,990
they'll probably break it and there's no

1937
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:08,430
cell phone that works so what they can

1938
01:19:12,410 --> 01:19:10,170
do with it nothing there's no internet

1939
01:19:14,930 --> 01:19:12,420
but was the world be without an internet

1940
01:19:17,330 --> 01:19:14,940
that okay let's take ourselves back to

1941
01:19:19,550 --> 01:19:17,340
that journey back through time back to

1942
01:19:21,830 --> 01:19:19,560
the early part of the civilization now

1943
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:21,840
Charles Fort said we are property right

1944
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:25,650
okay so is it possible that humans were

1945
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:28,170
seeded by an intelligent species

1946
01:19:35,780 --> 01:19:31,730
indigenous to this planet et whatever

1947
01:19:36,350 --> 01:19:35,790
they do genetic manipulation they bring

1948
01:19:39,710 --> 01:19:36,360
us about

1949
01:19:42,260 --> 01:19:39,720
they come around and check in on us what

1950
01:19:43,850 --> 01:19:42,270
does that do to our religions around the

1951
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:43,860
world this is one of the things I

1952
01:19:49,910 --> 01:19:46,770
alluded to earlier yeah hey obviously

1953
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:49,920
the religions it would force an entire

1954
01:19:54,050 --> 01:19:52,290
new paradigm but it's interesting and

1955
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:54,060
this is something we'll be covering very

1956
01:19:59,420 --> 01:19:56,850
soon in in our second issue of open

1957
01:20:02,300 --> 01:19:59,430
minds magazine that and you probably all

1958
01:20:06,020 --> 01:20:02,310
saw this in the in the news or in the

1959
01:20:08,770 --> 01:20:06,030
web that lately the Vatican astronomers

1960
01:20:13,010 --> 01:20:08,780
seem to be very much talking about this

1961
01:20:15,050 --> 01:20:13,020
they had a big conference in December at

1962
01:20:17,630 --> 01:20:15,060
the Vatican Pontifical Pontifical

1963
01:20:20,150 --> 01:20:17,640
Academy of Sciences very official high

1964
01:20:22,460 --> 01:20:20,160
profile conference on astrobiology in

1965
01:20:26,330 --> 01:20:22,470
which most of the discussions were about

1966
01:20:28,970 --> 01:20:26,340
searching for life in outer space search

1967
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:28,980
for planets and how many planets are in

1968
01:20:34,310 --> 01:20:31,890
the universe and so on the chief Vatican

1969
01:20:36,470 --> 01:20:34,320
astronomer who's originally from as a

1970
01:20:38,570 --> 01:20:36,480
Jesuit most of the Vatican astronomers

1971
01:20:41,870 --> 01:20:38,580
are Jesuits his name is foolish hey

1972
01:20:44,870 --> 01:20:41,880
Gabriel Funes he obviously is an a storm

1973
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:44,880
has a PhD but he's also a priest he gave

1974
01:20:48,500 --> 01:20:46,650
an interview that was published in the

1975
01:20:50,780 --> 01:20:48,510
Vatican Observer which is the official

1976
01:20:53,060 --> 01:20:50,790
newspaper of the Vatican and this was

1977
01:20:55,910 --> 01:20:53,070
published in a couple of years ago and

1978
01:20:58,460 --> 01:20:55,920
the title of the headline the title of

1979
01:21:00,860 --> 01:20:58,470
the article was quite revealing the

1980
01:21:02,330 --> 01:21:00,870
extra-terrestrial is my brother so I

1981
01:21:03,709 --> 01:21:02,340
think that

1982
01:21:05,330 --> 01:21:03,719
the Vatican this is my own

1983
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:05,340
interpretation they learned something

1984
01:21:09,740 --> 01:21:07,290
you know from the Galileo affair and

1985
01:21:12,109 --> 01:21:09,750
from Copernicus and all that I think

1986
01:21:14,930 --> 01:21:12,119
they see that that's where astronomy is

1987
01:21:16,310 --> 01:21:14,940
going and all it took and but at least

1988
01:21:17,750 --> 01:21:16,320
they learn that even if it took them

1989
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:17,760
that long and this time they don't want

1990
01:21:21,649 --> 01:21:19,290
to be behind the Train they want to be

1991
01:21:24,169 --> 01:21:21,659
ahead so it's quite significant of

1992
01:21:26,899 --> 01:21:24,179
course theologically the existence of

1993
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:26,909
aliens creates a host of problems for

1994
01:21:31,339 --> 01:21:28,530
the Catholic on the Christian religion

1995
01:21:33,169 --> 01:21:31,349
not so much for other religions in fact

1996
01:21:36,050 --> 01:21:33,179
the Quran even says that there are many

1997
01:21:37,820 --> 01:21:36,060
worlds but the Catholic religion has a

1998
01:21:40,129 --> 01:21:37,830
little problem there not so much with

1999
01:21:41,810 --> 01:21:40,139
the creation of other worlds because

2000
01:21:44,750 --> 01:21:41,820
obviously God the Creator could do as

2001
01:21:47,930 --> 01:21:44,760
many worlds as he pleases but with the

2002
01:21:50,450 --> 01:21:47,940
whole problem of Jesus you know and in

2003
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:50,460
the original sin and this was discussed

2004
01:21:53,899 --> 01:21:52,050
in our article we called all these

2005
01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:53,909
different priests and theologians and so

2006
01:21:59,570 --> 01:21:56,489
on how do you deal with a race that

2007
01:22:01,910 --> 01:21:59,580
didn't have it a original sin or did

2008
01:22:04,189 --> 01:22:01,920
they get a revelation on their own did

2009
01:22:06,530 --> 01:22:04,199
God also incarnated on their planet and

2010
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:06,540
so on so this is why traditionally the

2011
01:22:11,570 --> 01:22:09,050
church has been very leery of

2012
01:22:13,729 --> 01:22:11,580
approaching this however even the

2013
01:22:16,100 --> 01:22:13,739
Vatican has had to follow Jesus and the

2014
01:22:18,890 --> 01:22:16,110
most famous was the late Monsignor

2015
01:22:21,859 --> 01:22:18,900
Balducci whom I met and he was a

2016
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:21,869
demonologist he was a the Vatican chief

2017
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:24,210
Exorcist fascinating personality okay

2018
01:22:28,820 --> 01:22:26,730
did he believe in ET yeah okay he had a

2019
01:22:30,649 --> 01:22:28,830
famous saying he had a few things that

2020
01:22:33,890 --> 01:22:30,659
he always said he first he said I am NOT

2021
01:22:35,390 --> 01:22:33,900
the spokesman from the Vatican I am just

2022
01:22:37,970 --> 01:22:35,400
Monsignor Balducci and I am interested

2023
01:22:39,919 --> 01:22:37,980
in UFOs meaning not not just because

2024
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:39,929
he's a theologian from the back says

2025
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:41,810
unless you're dealing with specific

2026
01:22:46,580 --> 01:22:44,730
Catholic dogma you have a freedom to

2027
01:22:48,290 --> 01:22:46,590
discuss any subject so that was the

2028
01:22:50,689 --> 01:22:48,300
first thing although he was always miss

2029
01:22:52,729 --> 01:22:50,699
courted by everybody vatican priest says

2030
01:22:55,669 --> 01:22:52,739
i blah blah blah but he always clarified

2031
01:22:57,740 --> 01:22:55,679
that the other one he says is that that

2032
01:23:00,580 --> 01:22:57,750
he believed that was his own conclusion

2033
01:23:03,919 --> 01:23:00,590
that these were ETS because he said

2034
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:03,929
angels and demons do not need machines

2035
01:23:08,810 --> 01:23:06,170
to fly around so if you need a machine

2036
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:08,820
you're not an angel or a demon because

2037
01:23:12,910 --> 01:23:11,090
they can fly by themselves

2038
01:23:16,150 --> 01:23:12,920
and we certainly wouldn't want to admit

2039
01:23:18,580 --> 01:23:16,160
that the advance being or beings that

2040
01:23:20,590 --> 01:23:18,590
they talk about we're really et or

2041
01:23:24,490 --> 01:23:20,600
whatever he used to go to your fall

2042
01:23:26,590 --> 01:23:24,500
Congress's and he was even the last time

2043
01:23:28,780 --> 01:23:26,600
I saw him was that the ex conference so

2044
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:28,790
he was very outspoken but like I said he

2045
01:23:33,940 --> 01:23:31,280
always said this is my own opinion I'm

2046
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:33,950
not speaking for the Vatican so in prior

2047
01:23:38,650 --> 01:23:36,050
to Balducci who even had another

2048
01:23:40,480 --> 01:23:38,660
character another Jesuit pollutant was

2049
01:23:43,150 --> 01:23:40,490
not a Jesuit but most of these others

2050
01:23:44,230 --> 01:23:43,160
are who's called father gratzel

2051
01:23:47,500 --> 01:23:44,240
Dominical Grasso

2052
01:23:50,650 --> 01:23:47,510
he was a theologian and he went to some

2053
01:23:53,020 --> 01:23:50,660
UFO symposiums in Europe in the 1960s

2054
01:23:55,750 --> 01:23:53,030
and 70s where he gave papers and

2055
01:23:58,390 --> 01:23:55,760
everything too so even the Vatican I

2056
01:24:00,400 --> 01:23:58,400
think over the years although at that

2057
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:00,410
time it seemed like there were only this

2058
01:24:05,050 --> 01:24:02,690
occasionally some priests that would go

2059
01:24:07,870 --> 01:24:05,060
to an event now it seems much more

2060
01:24:11,050 --> 01:24:07,880
official now you have the Vatican chief

2061
01:24:13,660 --> 01:24:11,060
astronomer giving interviews in the

2062
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:13,670
Vatican newspaper there's been sort of a

2063
01:24:19,030 --> 01:24:16,730
an official position taken now because

2064
01:24:20,860 --> 01:24:19,040
to me in a headline like that the

2065
01:24:22,810 --> 01:24:20,870
extra-terrestrial is my brother in the

2066
01:24:25,030 --> 01:24:22,820
Vatican Observer that's not coincidental

2067
01:24:26,980 --> 01:24:25,040
I mean you know anybody that's worked on

2068
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:26,990
the media anybody can write an article

2069
01:24:31,270 --> 01:24:28,610
something but when it comes to the

2070
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:31,280
titles and the covers that's editorial

2071
01:24:34,030 --> 01:24:32,690
that's done by the publisher you know

2072
01:24:36,220 --> 01:24:34,040
one day they're the ones that determine

2073
01:24:38,170 --> 01:24:36,230
what is the head maybe we'll have a big

2074
01:24:46,270 --> 01:24:38,180
disclosure announcement when the Pope

2075
01:24:48,660 --> 01:24:46,280
goes to Portugal I believe that once

2076
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:48,670
when I was new in this phenomenon and

2077
01:24:53,590 --> 01:24:51,530
there was a story in the US News & World

2078
01:24:56,350 --> 01:24:53,600
Report the Jimmy Carter was going to

2079
01:24:58,810 --> 01:24:56,360
have a big release in me being a naive

2080
01:25:01,210 --> 01:24:58,820
guy who just had come from South America

2081
01:25:03,220 --> 01:25:01,220
at that time I saw something in US News

2082
01:25:05,830 --> 01:25:03,230
& World Report and said sounded like the

2083
01:25:08,020 --> 01:25:05,840
legit and I believed it but when that

2084
01:25:10,150 --> 01:25:08,030
didn't happen you know after that I well

2085
01:25:12,820 --> 01:25:10,160
I mean I wish there was some there's

2086
01:25:14,290 --> 01:25:12,830
some there seems to be some trend or by

2087
01:25:15,010 --> 01:25:14,300
different governments to release

2088
01:25:18,220 --> 01:25:15,020
documents

2089
01:25:20,770 --> 01:25:18,230
yes but the big disclosure may be it's a

2090
01:25:22,930 --> 01:25:20,780
very long term process though and it's

2091
01:25:25,510 --> 01:25:22,940
just like a you know like a very

2092
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:25,520
whoa that's possible but no I don't

2093
01:25:29,650 --> 01:25:27,290
believe in the dramatic press conference

2094
01:25:32,380 --> 01:25:29,660
of the president general whatever vomit

2095
01:25:35,770 --> 01:25:32,390
rotten out an alien on a special

2096
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:35,780
broadcast TV yes it's really five suntan

2097
01:25:43,420 --> 01:25:40,370
well yeah he was right it right takes

2098
01:25:46,330 --> 01:25:43,430
off his five Symington mass and he's et

2099
01:25:49,450 --> 01:25:46,340
the mask is off and he says somebody

2100
01:25:51,850 --> 01:25:49,460
stop me yeah and then what does he do he

2101
01:25:58,930 --> 01:25:51,860
turns around years later and fesses up

2102
01:26:01,750 --> 01:25:58,940
and says what I actually remember this

2103
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:01,760
guy was impeached right as governor of

2104
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:03,770
Arizona this guy was thrown out of

2105
01:26:08,350 --> 01:26:06,050
office for doing things that aren't

2106
01:26:11,770 --> 01:26:08,360
kosher now maybe he was pardoned by

2107
01:26:16,030 --> 01:26:11,780
President Clinton first crimes but at

2108
01:26:19,689 --> 01:26:18,360
[Music]

2109
01:26:23,470 --> 01:26:19,699
hi

2110
01:26:25,450 --> 01:26:23,480
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2111
01:26:27,459 --> 01:26:25,460
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2112
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2118
01:26:40,810 --> 01:26:39,020
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2119
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:40,820
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01:26:44,709 --> 01:26:42,890
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2121
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2122
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01:26:51,459 --> 01:26:49,520
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2126
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01:27:00,420 --> 01:26:59,660
facebook.com slash Namecheap see you

2129
01:27:03,939 --> 01:27:00,430
online

2130
01:27:06,850 --> 01:27:03,949
hi this is Don Ecker and you are tuned

2131
01:27:09,220 --> 01:27:06,860
in to the para cast let me tell you what

2132
01:27:12,729 --> 01:27:09,230
you're gonna hear stuff here that you

2133
01:27:16,420 --> 01:27:12,739
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

2134
01:27:18,910 --> 01:27:16,430
that George snoring we have Antonio Ho

2135
01:27:21,790 --> 01:27:18,920
dais and Christopher O'Brien the subject

2136
01:27:24,790 --> 01:27:21,800
ranging from ET in ancient times to

2137
01:27:27,270 --> 01:27:24,800
governor Fife Symington okay so we are

2138
01:27:31,630 --> 01:27:27,280
going far afield but let's go back to

2139
01:27:34,529 --> 01:27:31,640
these ancient stories right now in every

2140
01:27:38,229 --> 01:27:34,539
year of history we see something moving

2141
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:38,239
strange things that fly in the sky yeah

2142
01:27:42,489 --> 01:27:40,610
one of the articles I have on the second

2143
01:27:45,009 --> 01:27:42,499
issue is very interesting I really

2144
01:27:48,009 --> 01:27:45,019
enjoyed researching that article I call

2145
01:27:50,409 --> 01:27:48,019
it the first UFO wave in Mexico and

2146
01:27:52,750 --> 01:27:50,419
basically what happened was for a period

2147
01:27:53,830 --> 01:27:52,760
of about ten years prior to the arrival

2148
01:27:56,739 --> 01:27:53,840
of the Spanish

2149
01:28:00,209 --> 01:27:56,749
so Cortes arrived the conquistador

2150
01:28:03,939 --> 01:28:00,219
arrived in 1519 beginning around 5:10

2151
01:28:05,859 --> 01:28:03,949
1510 there was a whole series of what

2152
01:28:09,009 --> 01:28:05,869
they at the time they were called omens

2153
01:28:11,830 --> 01:28:09,019
we are stuff seeing over Mexico which

2154
01:28:15,609 --> 01:28:11,840
was some sort of as it was interpreted

2155
01:28:17,500 --> 01:28:15,619
as a sign at the time that time was up

2156
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:17,510
basically and that there was this

2157
01:28:22,119 --> 01:28:19,010
prophecy about the return of

2158
01:28:24,369 --> 01:28:22,129
Quetzalcoatl and that's why when the

2159
01:28:26,109 --> 01:28:24,379
Spanish arrived initially there was very

2160
01:28:28,719 --> 01:28:26,119
little resistance because they thought

2161
01:28:31,419 --> 01:28:28,729
they were if not the gods themselves the

2162
01:28:33,729 --> 01:28:31,429
representatives of the gods in Cortes

2163
01:28:37,089 --> 01:28:33,739
who was ruthless by the very clever

2164
01:28:40,719 --> 01:28:37,099
intelligent man who had this mistress

2165
01:28:43,540 --> 01:28:40,729
Comaneci who was an Indian woman who

2166
01:28:45,279 --> 01:28:43,550
spoke many languages he must have been

2167
01:28:47,379 --> 01:28:45,289
informed right away of this so then he

2168
01:28:50,619 --> 01:28:47,389
used it to his advantage now one of the

2169
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:50,629
more popular stories about alleged

2170
01:28:57,189 --> 01:28:54,050
deities goes back to 1897 the airships

2171
01:28:59,290 --> 01:28:57,199
and sure that's a real can of worms and

2172
01:29:02,350 --> 01:28:59,300
of course there is that incident at

2173
01:29:05,409 --> 01:29:02,360
Aurora Texas where ETS it was allegedly

2174
01:29:08,290 --> 01:29:05,419
buried any truth to that I think there's

2175
01:29:11,319 --> 01:29:08,300
some truth to the general airship wave

2176
01:29:13,810 --> 01:29:11,329
but the standards of the press at the

2177
01:29:16,629 --> 01:29:13,820
time were very loose there were so many

2178
01:29:19,839 --> 01:29:16,639
competition in every city had about

2179
01:29:21,369 --> 01:29:19,849
seven or eight or ten newspapers so they

2180
01:29:24,159 --> 01:29:21,379
usually who were trying to leave out

2181
01:29:26,589 --> 01:29:24,169
stayed each other and they would very

2182
01:29:28,899 --> 01:29:26,599
often resort to hoaxes worse now the

2183
01:29:30,699 --> 01:29:28,909
newspaper creates a hoax you know that

2184
01:29:32,989 --> 01:29:30,709
reporter gets fired and all that but so

2185
01:29:36,290 --> 01:29:32,999
that's very sure about yeah

2186
01:29:38,509 --> 01:29:36,300
well no I think if it's a reporter for a

2187
01:29:42,500 --> 01:29:38,519
major newspaper they work cases you know

2188
01:29:45,020 --> 01:29:42,510
where people's faked interviews so in

2189
01:29:47,239 --> 01:29:45,030
any case I think there were many hoaxes

2190
01:29:49,399 --> 01:29:47,249
but on the other hand this thing was so

2191
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:49,409
widespread that something must have been

2192
01:29:54,799 --> 01:29:52,650
seen and because it's a true UFO wave

2193
01:29:56,870 --> 01:29:54,809
from a sociological point of view I mean

2194
01:29:59,149 --> 01:29:56,880
it was all over the United States and

2195
01:30:00,919 --> 01:29:59,159
then of course it wasn't only in the

2196
01:30:04,580 --> 01:30:00,929
United States either it was museu yeah

2197
01:30:07,310 --> 01:30:04,590
the New Zealand Europe to 1909 there was

2198
01:30:09,649 --> 01:30:07,320
another one in England keel has you know

2199
01:30:12,379 --> 01:30:09,659
wrote a great deal about this I've seen

2200
01:30:14,450 --> 01:30:12,389
some of the newspaper clippings Jacobs

2201
01:30:16,399 --> 01:30:14,460
of course David Jacobs he believes that

2202
01:30:19,279 --> 01:30:16,409
that's when the whole abduction project

2203
01:30:21,890 --> 01:30:19,289
quote started he's a historian you know

2204
01:30:23,839 --> 01:30:21,900
David Jacobs and oddly enough he even

2205
01:30:26,209 --> 01:30:23,849
though he believes in that all this

2206
01:30:28,279 --> 01:30:26,219
theory of the hybrids and all that but

2207
01:30:30,500 --> 01:30:28,289
when it comes to historical cases he's

2208
01:30:32,029 --> 01:30:30,510
very conservative he's a skeptic when it

2209
01:30:34,489 --> 01:30:32,039
comes to ancient astronauts and all that

2210
01:30:36,229 --> 01:30:34,499
but he does believe in the airship flap

2211
01:30:38,839 --> 01:30:36,239
and he says that that's when it all

2212
01:30:40,549 --> 01:30:38,849
started that's when the the first

2213
01:30:42,319 --> 01:30:40,559
abductions took place which of course

2214
01:30:45,410 --> 01:30:42,329
are not reported in the newspapers at

2215
01:30:47,509 --> 01:30:45,420
the time but there was a calf that was

2216
01:30:49,219 --> 01:30:47,519
abducted yeah although I believe that

2217
01:30:51,290 --> 01:30:49,229
case was later found to be a hoax

2218
01:30:53,299 --> 01:30:51,300
yeah one of the things I wonder about

2219
01:30:55,580 --> 01:30:53,309
here though with all the abductions how

2220
01:30:59,180 --> 01:30:55,590
far back can we take that I mean if we

2221
01:31:02,839 --> 01:30:59,190
have contacts in ancient times biblical

2222
01:31:05,810 --> 01:31:02,849
times where we come into contact or were

2223
01:31:07,850 --> 01:31:05,820
taken aboard weird craft isn't that the

2224
01:31:11,089 --> 01:31:07,860
same thing as the abduction it happens I

2225
01:31:13,700 --> 01:31:11,099
was just talking briefly before about

2226
01:31:15,830 --> 01:31:13,710
the the Mexico cases and before the

2227
01:31:17,660 --> 01:31:15,840
arrival of the Spanish one of the cases

2228
01:31:20,089 --> 01:31:17,670
I discovered and this is by the way it's

2229
01:31:22,310 --> 01:31:20,099
and all the chronicles written usually

2230
01:31:25,040 --> 01:31:22,320
by the missionaries or in some cases by

2231
01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:25,050
the conquistadors or even by the Indians

2232
01:31:29,689 --> 01:31:27,449
themselves who wrote them some of these

2233
01:31:32,719 --> 01:31:29,699
books were even written in our language

2234
01:31:35,330 --> 01:31:32,729
so it's a variety of sources and one of

2235
01:31:37,399 --> 01:31:35,340
the most fascinating cases is what I

2236
01:31:40,279 --> 01:31:37,409
call their like maybe the first

2237
01:31:43,189 --> 01:31:40,289
abduction it deals with a peasant who

2238
01:31:45,660 --> 01:31:43,199
gets taken by an eagle but then in the

2239
01:31:48,030 --> 01:31:45,670
ego takes them to a cave and

2240
01:31:51,390 --> 01:31:48,040
being something that's flies well the

2241
01:31:53,700 --> 01:31:51,400
evil talks and this is for course first

2242
01:31:57,630 --> 01:31:53,710
of all Eagles don't talk second as you

2243
01:31:59,910 --> 01:31:57,640
know it's not any of achievement second

2244
01:32:01,830 --> 01:31:59,920
in many of the UFO literature as you

2245
01:32:04,020 --> 01:32:01,840
know there are these what they call the

2246
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:04,030
screen memories where people think that

2247
01:32:09,030 --> 01:32:06,970
they saw owls or raccoons or something

2248
01:32:11,190 --> 01:32:09,040
like that and they were really the

2249
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:11,200
aliens but because the mind you know

2250
01:32:17,910 --> 01:32:14,530
creates tricks so here they take this

2251
01:32:20,490 --> 01:32:17,920
guy the eagle talks then they take him

2252
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:20,500
that he has to go see the emperor

2253
01:32:25,290 --> 01:32:23,290
Moctezuma and then again we were talking

2254
01:32:27,480 --> 01:32:25,300
about this earlier he boom it's like

2255
01:32:29,970 --> 01:32:27,490
teletransported somehow he's in a room

2256
01:32:32,610 --> 01:32:29,980
where Montezuma is sleeping and they

2257
01:32:34,650 --> 01:32:32,620
give him a cigar and they say because

2258
01:32:36,450 --> 01:32:34,660
tomorrow you're gonna come see Montezuma

2259
01:32:40,410 --> 01:32:36,460
and he has to believe that you were here

2260
01:32:41,790 --> 01:32:40,420
so burn the thigh with a cigar and of

2261
01:32:43,620 --> 01:32:41,800
course the guy doesn't want to do it

2262
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:43,630
means the Emperor's gonna get killed so

2263
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:46,210
don't worry he's not gonna wake up so he

2264
01:32:50,460 --> 01:32:47,770
does that he burns him with a with a

2265
01:32:52,260 --> 01:32:50,470
cigar that been done the Eagle takes him

2266
01:32:53,910 --> 01:32:52,270
back to the field where he was

2267
01:32:55,500 --> 01:32:53,920
originally abducted so even that is

2268
01:32:58,170 --> 01:32:55,510
similar he gets back to the original

2269
01:33:00,930 --> 01:32:58,180
spot and they tell him that he has to go

2270
01:33:03,860 --> 01:33:00,940
see the king and tell him this warning

2271
01:33:06,540 --> 01:33:03,870
that they're giving him so he goes and

2272
01:33:09,540 --> 01:33:06,550
Montezuma receives him and first you

2273
01:33:12,330 --> 01:33:09,550
know it's suspicious of the guy but then

2274
01:33:14,610 --> 01:33:12,340
the guy says well you know sorry your

2275
01:33:17,010 --> 01:33:14,620
majesty whatever but you know this was

2276
01:33:19,380 --> 01:33:17,020
my fault I was told to do this look at

2277
01:33:21,990 --> 01:33:19,390
your thigh and sure enough he opens and

2278
01:33:24,290 --> 01:33:22,000
if there's a wound in his thigh and then

2279
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:24,300
went to Sumer says yes I dreamed that

2280
01:33:28,890 --> 01:33:27,130
someone was burning my fine this is all

2281
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:28,900
in the chronicle by a guy called farther

2282
01:33:33,990 --> 01:33:31,810
Diego Dillon written in the 1560s or

2283
01:33:35,580 --> 01:33:34,000
whatever then unfortunately for the guy

2284
01:33:37,020 --> 01:33:35,590
even though they ego had told him don't

2285
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:37,030
worry nothing's going to happen to you

2286
01:33:41,100 --> 01:33:38,770
then Montezuma goes into a rage and

2287
01:33:43,380 --> 01:33:41,110
throws him in a kennel prison he says

2288
01:33:45,540 --> 01:33:43,390
and don't give food let him starve there

2289
01:33:46,689 --> 01:33:45,550
and that's so the first abductee didn't

2290
01:33:48,550 --> 01:33:46,699
do very well

2291
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:48,560
and that's the last we heard of this guy

2292
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:51,170
however there is a 17th century church

2293
01:33:57,370 --> 01:33:53,810
in Mexico City which I was able to visit

2294
01:33:59,530 --> 01:33:57,380
which has the episode is in stone pillar

2295
01:34:02,020 --> 01:33:59,540
they actually have the episode of the of

2296
01:34:03,430 --> 01:34:02,030
the Indian being grabbed by the evil of

2297
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:03,440
course looks like an eagle more like a

2298
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:05,570
UFO so you have an abduction type

2299
01:34:11,410 --> 01:34:08,570
scenario this is in the 1500s and there

2300
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:11,420
are the cases usually when this happened

2301
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:13,370
in the in the Middle Ages or in the

2302
01:34:17,260 --> 01:34:15,410
Renaissance even up to the seventeen

2303
01:34:19,740 --> 01:34:17,270
hundreds of course it could be dangerous

2304
01:34:22,780 --> 01:34:19,750
and because they would be immediately

2305
01:34:24,610 --> 01:34:22,790
interpreted by us terminology the demons

2306
01:34:26,620 --> 01:34:24,620
could do this kind of stuff according to

2307
01:34:28,810 --> 01:34:26,630
the all beliefs the demons could take

2308
01:34:33,130 --> 01:34:28,820
one and teletran and take him to another

2309
01:34:35,590 --> 01:34:33,140
place and play tricks there would be be

2310
01:34:36,790 --> 01:34:35,600
brought up at some point yeah oh yes we

2311
01:34:40,570 --> 01:34:36,800
haven't had the trickster on the show

2312
01:34:43,419 --> 01:34:40,580
this weekend I was about to say we

2313
01:34:46,180 --> 01:34:43,429
weren't going to have the trickster but

2314
01:34:48,760 --> 01:34:46,190
the trickster has nonetheless decided I

2315
01:34:48,939 --> 01:34:48,770
couldn't sorry gene I just made you do

2316
01:34:52,870 --> 01:34:48,949
it

2317
01:34:56,820 --> 01:34:52,880
so now that's the other thing too here

2318
01:34:58,570 --> 01:34:56,830
we have not just ET type beings we have

2319
01:35:01,209 --> 01:34:58,580
leprechauns and all these other

2320
01:35:03,669 --> 01:35:01,219
creatures right these short statured

2321
01:35:06,430 --> 01:35:03,679
creatures yes and now we have the graves

2322
01:35:08,229 --> 01:35:06,440
so can we look at leprechauns here and

2323
01:35:10,390 --> 01:35:08,239
the greys here and say you know if

2324
01:35:12,310 --> 01:35:10,400
there's a family resemblance yeah yeah

2325
01:35:15,010 --> 01:35:12,320
all you see there's some of them many of

2326
01:35:17,590 --> 01:35:15,020
the alien creatures reporting and

2327
01:35:19,630 --> 01:35:17,600
especially when you go to the old cases

2328
01:35:22,209 --> 01:35:19,640
and the 50s and when they used to land

2329
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:22,219
and little guys would come with shovels

2330
01:35:27,790 --> 01:35:24,890
or whatever yeah it's some of those are

2331
01:35:29,290 --> 01:35:27,800
quite similar in appearance to some of

2332
01:35:31,959 --> 01:35:29,300
the creatures you have in folklore and

2333
01:35:33,700 --> 01:35:31,969
this of course is what led ballet to

2334
01:35:36,430 --> 01:35:33,710
shift you know about lanes first two

2335
01:35:38,530 --> 01:35:36,440
books he was a sort of ritual you know

2336
01:35:40,990 --> 01:35:38,540
he thought that UFOs were coming from

2337
01:35:44,169 --> 01:35:41,000
outer space and in devices and all that

2338
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:44,179
machines but then he reassessed his his

2339
01:35:48,580 --> 01:35:46,010
position with this famous book called

2340
01:35:50,860 --> 01:35:48,590
passport - magana which later was kind

2341
01:35:52,780 --> 01:35:50,870
of reissued in dimensions it was pretty

2342
01:35:54,459 --> 01:35:52,790
much the same book where he did all

2343
01:35:56,520 --> 01:35:54,469
these comparisons with folklore of

2344
01:35:57,810 --> 01:35:56,530
course there's always a sociological

2345
01:35:59,850 --> 01:35:57,820
component

2346
01:36:01,740 --> 01:35:59,860
which is true for modern times and it's

2347
01:36:04,140 --> 01:36:01,750
true for ancient times so maybe you're

2348
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:04,150
seeing something but your mind will

2349
01:36:08,430 --> 01:36:05,770
interpret it in something that is

2350
01:36:10,470 --> 01:36:08,440
somewhat familiar to you you know so the

2351
01:36:13,379 --> 01:36:10,480
old people had these various beliefs

2352
01:36:14,879 --> 01:36:13,389
about leprechauns and in all these all

2353
01:36:18,629 --> 01:36:14,889
these fairies and all these kinds of

2354
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:18,639
things in our mythologies aliens like

2355
01:36:22,680 --> 01:36:20,650
The Dropper they were considered I mean

2356
01:36:25,260 --> 01:36:22,690
they're like four foot tall and the job

2357
01:36:26,280 --> 01:36:25,270
in China insurance allegedly allegedly

2358
01:36:28,169 --> 01:36:26,290
yeah

2359
01:36:30,780 --> 01:36:28,179
because that I don't know how badly that

2360
01:36:32,910 --> 01:36:30,790
story is but it's a fascinating story

2361
01:36:34,530 --> 01:36:32,920
but I did some research on that case

2362
01:36:37,439 --> 01:36:34,540
this is where your fault supposed to

2363
01:36:40,140 --> 01:36:37,449
have crash in in an area of Tibet or

2364
01:36:42,540 --> 01:36:40,150
China annuity bed people intermingle and

2365
01:36:44,700 --> 01:36:42,550
eventually created the small race of

2366
01:36:47,970 --> 01:36:44,710
Tibetans or whatever and there were

2367
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:47,980
these Stone discs allegedly and this was

2368
01:36:53,220 --> 01:36:50,530
published in some Russian magazines in

2369
01:36:55,680 --> 01:36:53,230
the 60s but to this day I've never seen

2370
01:36:57,899 --> 01:36:55,690
any of the discs or The Dropper scams

2371
01:37:00,030 --> 01:36:57,909
yeah string of stones we look at things

2372
01:37:02,129 --> 01:37:00,040
like Stonehenge other ancient artifacts

2373
01:37:04,470 --> 01:37:02,139
of course the pyramids of Egypt we say

2374
01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:04,480
you know what the pyramids of Egypt they

2375
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:06,250
couldn't do that without some help of

2376
01:37:11,660 --> 01:37:08,650
course nowadays we say yeah I guess they

2377
01:37:14,310 --> 01:37:11,670
did but these are any evidence of any

2378
01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:14,320
outside intervention and creating

2379
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:16,210
artifacts of that type not direct

2380
01:37:20,399 --> 01:37:18,250
evidence I think it's a matter of

2381
01:37:22,649 --> 01:37:20,409
interpretation and of course when people

2382
01:37:25,020 --> 01:37:22,659
like von Daniken goes to these countries

2383
01:37:26,970 --> 01:37:25,030
you know I one time he was practically

2384
01:37:29,430 --> 01:37:26,980
they clear I think persona non grata in

2385
01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:29,440
Peru Bolivia or something because they

2386
01:37:34,379 --> 01:37:31,570
they thought it was an insult he was

2387
01:37:36,930 --> 01:37:34,389
insulting their own culture by saying no

2388
01:37:39,810 --> 01:37:36,940
you guys were too stupid too ignorant so

2389
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:39,820
- do you know Machu Picchu or Tiahuanaco

2390
01:37:44,939 --> 01:37:43,210
so it had to be the aliens but again you

2391
01:37:46,910 --> 01:37:44,949
know if some of these things there are

2392
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:46,920
legends and

2393
01:37:50,870 --> 01:37:48,690
that the gods had something to do with

2394
01:37:52,790 --> 01:37:50,880
it or whatever but but the monuments

2395
01:37:55,450 --> 01:37:52,800
themselves I don't think it's a very

2396
01:37:58,340 --> 01:37:55,460
strong proof except maybe Baalbek

2397
01:38:01,729 --> 01:37:58,350
Baalbek is that the famous temple in

2398
01:38:03,830 --> 01:38:01,739
Lebanon and this thing has these massive

2399
01:38:06,260 --> 01:38:03,840
boulders that there are so humongous

2400
01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:06,270
that I don't think even our most modern

2401
01:38:10,340 --> 01:38:09,570
technology we can add a thousand tons I

2402
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:10,350
think that's the big one

2403
01:38:14,930 --> 01:38:13,290
and it's it's it's actually worked it's

2404
01:38:16,490 --> 01:38:14,940
a work stone it's not natural stone

2405
01:38:18,830 --> 01:38:16,500
right there is the problem of the

2406
01:38:20,660 --> 01:38:18,840
transportation even in storage how did

2407
01:38:22,430 --> 01:38:20,670
they move all Easter Island there all

2408
01:38:24,169 --> 01:38:22,440
these places there they're one of the

2409
01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:24,179
things that had left some people to the

2410
01:38:29,240 --> 01:38:27,090
ancient astronaut is because not even so

2411
01:38:31,729 --> 01:38:29,250
much how they did it but how they moved

2412
01:38:34,070 --> 01:38:31,739
how are they able to move without modern

2413
01:38:37,580 --> 01:38:34,080
technology yet other people have other

2414
01:38:39,770 --> 01:38:37,590
theories that maybe the ancients had

2415
01:38:42,140 --> 01:38:39,780
some knowledge that we don't in perhaps

2416
01:38:43,970 --> 01:38:42,150
they could alter matter and then make it

2417
01:38:45,740 --> 01:38:43,980
weightless or something I mean I'm

2418
01:38:48,229 --> 01:38:45,750
speculating but well maybe they can just

2419
01:38:50,930 --> 01:38:48,239
build it right in position assemble it

2420
01:38:53,390 --> 01:38:50,940
yeah by altering the molecules around

2421
01:38:56,390 --> 01:38:53,400
the right in position and in modern

2422
01:38:57,979 --> 01:38:56,400
times there's a this is Coral Castle you

2423
01:39:00,140 --> 01:38:57,989
know in Florida this is something mostly

2424
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:00,150
if it likes right here isn't Florida now

2425
01:39:04,669 --> 01:39:01,770
maybe he wants to build his own Coral

2426
01:39:07,610 --> 01:39:04,679
Castle but again this guy using very

2427
01:39:09,500 --> 01:39:07,620
simple their tools was able to move

2428
01:39:11,030 --> 01:39:09,510
these huge boulders now he never said

2429
01:39:13,010 --> 01:39:11,040
they were aliens or whatever so he knew

2430
01:39:15,410 --> 01:39:13,020
something he was I think it was a pretty

2431
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:15,420
simple thing but somehow whatever this

2432
01:39:19,850 --> 01:39:17,850
simple thing is all these engineers and

2433
01:39:22,220 --> 01:39:19,860
stuff I remember was one show I think in

2434
01:39:25,250 --> 01:39:22,230
Discovery a few years ago when they they

2435
01:39:26,990 --> 01:39:25,260
try to build the pyramid using the tools

2436
01:39:28,910 --> 01:39:27,000
that the Egyptians would have had this

2437
01:39:31,340 --> 01:39:28,920
pyramid was like 1/10 of the real

2438
01:39:33,650 --> 01:39:31,350
pyramid and took them a long time these

2439
01:39:35,630 --> 01:39:33,660
guys were having a hard time trying to

2440
01:39:37,580 --> 01:39:35,640
trying to do it and these were all these

2441
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:37,590
modern engineers well of course then the

2442
01:39:42,140 --> 01:39:39,090
thing is here they didn't have the

2443
01:39:43,970 --> 01:39:42,150
patience rather they did you know 2,000

2444
01:39:47,510 --> 01:39:43,980
years ago they were able to basically

2445
01:39:49,610 --> 01:39:47,520
take a project yeah and supposedly spend

2446
01:39:51,350 --> 01:39:49,620
a hundred years on it they did now if

2447
01:39:52,410 --> 01:39:51,360
you don't get built in ten minutes we

2448
01:39:54,270 --> 01:39:52,420
have no patience

2449
01:39:55,590 --> 01:39:54,280
the Gothic cathedrals in Europe which

2450
01:39:57,930 --> 01:39:55,600
are wonderful pieces of architecture

2451
01:40:00,180 --> 01:39:57,940
little and nobody has ever said that

2452
01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:00,190
we're done by aliens or anything because

2453
01:40:02,130 --> 01:40:01,810
whatever we have a record how they were

2454
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:02,140
done

2455
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:04,090
although has led to other conspiracy

2456
01:40:07,740 --> 01:40:05,770
theories with the Freemasons or whatever

2457
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:07,750
but those things would take a hundred

2458
01:40:11,790 --> 01:40:10,210
years 150 years yeah they were in no

2459
01:40:14,010 --> 01:40:11,800
hurry however long it took you know I

2460
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:14,020
mean when it was finished it was

2461
01:40:18,060 --> 01:40:16,090
finished the story of the Peruvians

2462
01:40:20,940 --> 01:40:18,070
trying to duplicate moving one of them

2463
01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:20,950
you know megalithic sized stones and oh

2464
01:40:25,620 --> 01:40:23,050
my god it's just part way up the hill

2465
01:40:28,350 --> 01:40:25,630
right it fell over and people got killed

2466
01:40:30,630 --> 01:40:28,360
and know there was something going on I

2467
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:30,640
mean it maybe wasn't aliens but they

2468
01:40:35,220 --> 01:40:32,650
they they knew something I think about

2469
01:40:36,810 --> 01:40:35,230
about manipulating matter of something

2470
01:40:38,700 --> 01:40:36,820
oh there oh they had some some

2471
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:38,710
techniques of some kind because it

2472
01:40:42,870 --> 01:40:41,290
reverts back to the legends of advanced

2473
01:40:44,700 --> 01:40:42,880
civilizations and you have to think here

2474
01:40:46,530 --> 01:40:44,710
if something happened that destroyed our

2475
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:46,540
civilization and we think it's gonna

2476
01:40:51,180 --> 01:40:48,730
happen in 2012 whatever something

2477
01:40:53,310 --> 01:40:51,190
happens a thousand two thousand years

2478
01:40:55,290 --> 01:40:53,320
from now what's going to be left really

2479
01:40:57,660 --> 01:40:55,300
right imagine if something we did

2480
01:40:59,460 --> 01:40:57,670
collapse and then but somehow some

2481
01:41:01,230 --> 01:40:59,470
people survived but they forget the

2482
01:41:03,210 --> 01:41:01,240
knowledge over and then like you say

2483
01:41:04,410 --> 01:41:03,220
five hundred years later with something

2484
01:41:06,630 --> 01:41:04,420
they try to reconstruct what happened

2485
01:41:09,210 --> 01:41:06,640
yeah we put they probably wouldn't get a

2486
01:41:11,070 --> 01:41:09,220
very precise accounting right or what

2487
01:41:12,780 --> 01:41:11,080
whatever civilization was because

2488
01:41:14,270 --> 01:41:12,790
whatever all these computed this all

2489
01:41:16,980 --> 01:41:14,280
this stuff would be unusable so

2490
01:41:18,330 --> 01:41:16,990
Battlestar Galactica now ladies and

2491
01:41:20,820 --> 01:41:18,340
gentlemen the TV show Battlestar

2492
01:41:23,010 --> 01:41:20,830
Galactica the secret is that takes place

2493
01:41:24,930 --> 01:41:23,020
a hundred fifty thousand years ago they

2494
01:41:28,050 --> 01:41:24,940
land on earth and become our forebears

2495
01:41:29,790 --> 01:41:28,060
right but nothing is left of their

2496
01:41:31,950 --> 01:41:29,800
civilization a few hundred or a few

2497
01:41:36,460 --> 01:41:31,960
thousand years later you know sucks when

2498
01:41:42,780 --> 01:41:39,290
[Music]

2499
01:41:45,209 --> 01:41:42,790
58 years fate has provided true reports

2500
01:41:47,310 --> 01:41:45,219
of the strange and unknown fate brings

2501
01:41:49,080 --> 01:41:47,320
you the latest in all aspects of the

2502
01:41:52,650 --> 01:41:49,090
paranormal like angels and miracles

2503
01:41:55,080 --> 01:41:52,660
psychic phenomena ghosts UFOs and much

2504
01:41:57,990 --> 01:41:55,090
much more to receive your complimentary

2505
01:42:01,470 --> 01:41:58,000
fate magazine call now at one eight

2506
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:01,480
hundred seven two eight two seven three

2507
01:42:06,150 --> 01:42:01,930
Oh

2508
01:42:08,430 --> 01:42:06,160
or visit their website at WWF as calm

2509
01:42:15,570 --> 01:42:08,440
that's one eight hundred seven two eight

2510
01:42:18,500 --> 01:42:15,580
two seven three zero or WWF a TEM AG

2511
01:42:28,720 --> 01:42:18,510
calm what are you waiting for your fate

2512
01:42:47,160 --> 01:42:35,400
[Music]

2513
01:42:52,479 --> 01:42:50,379
antonio hernias which with us Chris

2514
01:42:54,189 --> 01:42:52,489
O'Brien's her co-host crits follow up

2515
01:42:56,109 --> 01:42:54,199
with some more questions before we end

2516
01:42:58,240 --> 01:42:56,119
this session yeah I've always been

2517
01:43:01,569 --> 01:42:58,250
really fascinated by the historical

2518
01:43:03,939 --> 01:43:01,579
cases that are out there and you know I

2519
01:43:07,049 --> 01:43:03,949
have a sense that you at least based on

2520
01:43:09,779 --> 01:43:07,059
my research that we we do see some very

2521
01:43:12,189 --> 01:43:09,789
very strong correlations that run

2522
01:43:14,669 --> 01:43:12,199
cross-culturally from continent to

2523
01:43:17,259 --> 01:43:14,679
continent what do you think of Sagan's

2524
01:43:19,450 --> 01:43:17,269
assertion that if ETS

2525
01:43:21,700 --> 01:43:19,460
ever did come that it was a big deal was

2526
01:43:24,339 --> 01:43:21,710
a grand event they would it would be a

2527
01:43:28,810 --> 01:43:24,349
grand arrival that there would be no

2528
01:43:32,580 --> 01:43:28,820
real need really to do clandestine type

2529
01:43:35,259 --> 01:43:32,590
programs like the abduction scenario or

2530
01:43:37,750 --> 01:43:35,269
hybridizations or something like that

2531
01:43:41,020 --> 01:43:37,760
akin to that what what do you think of

2532
01:43:43,629 --> 01:43:41,030
that idea that possibly et types did

2533
01:43:45,939 --> 01:43:43,639
come but left a huge footprint at the

2534
01:43:47,109 --> 01:43:45,949
time I mean do you see the evidence of

2535
01:43:49,750 --> 01:43:47,119
that or do you think it's something

2536
01:43:52,629 --> 01:43:49,760
that's been more mythical and legendary

2537
01:43:55,990 --> 01:43:52,639
well if ET they've come and were some of

2538
01:43:58,120 --> 01:43:56,000
these gods of pagan mythology which is

2539
01:44:00,759 --> 01:43:58,130
what Daniken Institute and all these

2540
01:44:03,790 --> 01:44:00,769
people maintained then obviously it was

2541
01:44:05,770 --> 01:44:03,800
a big deal you know but then it became a

2542
01:44:07,990 --> 01:44:05,780
religion you know we make we made them

2543
01:44:09,459 --> 01:44:08,000
gods which would have not necessarily

2544
01:44:11,709 --> 01:44:09,469
been the case they were just more

2545
01:44:14,740 --> 01:44:11,719
advanced than us but it's hard to tell

2546
01:44:16,930 --> 01:44:14,750
it's a lot of this stuff basically comes

2547
01:44:19,000 --> 01:44:16,940
out you know a matter of interpretation

2548
01:44:21,459 --> 01:44:19,010
there's no question that there's a lot

2549
01:44:23,740 --> 01:44:21,469
of interesting accounts though from all

2550
01:44:25,810 --> 01:44:23,750
legends and mythology and folklore and

2551
01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:25,820
like I said even their paintings you

2552
01:44:29,200 --> 01:44:28,130
know remember the one in Kosovo in

2553
01:44:31,419 --> 01:44:29,210
Kosovo

2554
01:44:33,609 --> 01:44:31,429
it's an it's an immediate monastery

2555
01:44:35,799 --> 01:44:33,619
where you see these tool they say

2556
01:44:37,839 --> 01:44:35,809
standard medieval fresco of the

2557
01:44:41,259 --> 01:44:37,849
crucifixion and then on both sides

2558
01:44:42,970 --> 01:44:41,269
there's two objects and one really looks

2559
01:44:45,069 --> 01:44:42,980
like the mercury capsule and there's

2560
01:44:47,140 --> 01:44:45,079
like a little guy inside it and this

2561
01:44:48,709 --> 01:44:47,150
there's no dispute that that's a it's a

2562
01:44:52,009 --> 01:44:48,719
real painting if we will

2563
01:44:54,160 --> 01:44:52,019
in the 1,300 some people try to say well

2564
01:44:56,089 --> 01:44:54,170
is the moon and the Sun I mean obviously

2565
01:44:57,259 --> 01:44:56,099
skeptics are always going to try to come

2566
01:44:59,029 --> 01:44:57,269
up with some explanation

2567
01:45:00,140 --> 01:44:59,039
but it's quite uncanny because they're

2568
01:45:01,879 --> 01:45:00,150
saying actually he looks like the

2569
01:45:04,430 --> 01:45:01,889
mercury capsule and he's got a guy

2570
01:45:06,649 --> 01:45:04,440
crouched inside in one of them the other

2571
01:45:10,129 --> 01:45:06,659
one is like a ball or something I forgot

2572
01:45:12,729 --> 01:45:10,139
right now so there is compelling

2573
01:45:14,930 --> 01:45:12,739
evidence not definitive but certainly

2574
01:45:17,930 --> 01:45:14,940
interesting evidence have ever seen

2575
01:45:19,879 --> 01:45:17,940
those really cool medieval woodcuts

2576
01:45:22,310 --> 01:45:19,889
I think from China where you have the

2577
01:45:24,770 --> 01:45:22,320
the Chinese Lord kind of scratching his

2578
01:45:26,719 --> 01:45:24,780
chin looking at this like weird sort of

2579
01:45:28,069 --> 01:45:26,729
flying saucer looking object that seems

2580
01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:28,079
to be landed next to them it's about

2581
01:45:32,509 --> 01:45:30,090
three feet high and about five feet in

2582
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:32,519
diameter not very well known but I have

2583
01:45:37,669 --> 01:45:35,010
seen no I'm not sure it doesn't it

2584
01:45:43,459 --> 01:45:37,679
doesn't I can think of it right now

2585
01:45:45,589 --> 01:45:43,469
maybe I have if you have a picture of it

2586
01:45:47,390 --> 01:45:45,599
I'd love to see it of course in China

2587
01:45:49,759 --> 01:45:47,400
like I said mentioned earlier I did do

2588
01:45:51,770 --> 01:45:49,769
this article then it gets mixed up with

2589
01:45:55,489 --> 01:45:51,780
the legends of the Dragons you know that

2590
01:45:58,250 --> 01:45:55,499
flew and whatever dragons which again

2591
01:46:00,439 --> 01:45:58,260
when you think of it Casa cuatro going

2592
01:46:02,660 --> 01:46:00,449
back to Mexico that's a dragon too right

2593
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:02,670
if they're lying it's a flying serpent

2594
01:46:08,830 --> 01:46:05,010
which gave them knowledge and all that

2595
01:46:11,089 --> 01:46:08,840
so it's a whole feel there and I think

2596
01:46:13,310 --> 01:46:11,099
normally what happens is a lot of the

2597
01:46:14,989 --> 01:46:13,320
archaeologists the mainstream historians

2598
01:46:18,290 --> 01:46:14,999
they don't want to touch it at all you

2599
01:46:20,750 --> 01:46:18,300
know because it goes counter against you

2600
01:46:23,629 --> 01:46:20,760
know their academic beliefs and

2601
01:46:26,299 --> 01:46:23,639
paradigms but occasionally you do find

2602
01:46:28,939 --> 01:46:26,309
some some people that do dare to cross

2603
01:46:31,879 --> 01:46:28,949
that and do some some original thinking

2604
01:46:34,219 --> 01:46:31,889
way back in 50s Mosley and Jana Fortner

2605
01:46:36,830 --> 01:46:34,229
went to Peru to look at the Nazca lines

2606
01:46:40,160 --> 01:46:36,840
which supposedly you only see these

2607
01:46:43,370 --> 01:46:40,170
lines in their proper proportions if you

2608
01:46:45,890 --> 01:46:43,380
are airborne so what's the story that's

2609
01:46:48,529 --> 01:46:45,900
food I mean it's true that you can see

2610
01:46:50,450 --> 01:46:48,539
them on the ground and I have to clarify

2611
01:46:53,180 --> 01:46:50,460
that I unfortunately I have not seen

2612
01:46:55,219 --> 01:46:53,190
them but I've read plenty of it you do

2613
01:46:57,259 --> 01:46:55,229
see them on the ground but all you see

2614
01:46:59,600 --> 01:46:57,269
on the ground especially in their tour

2615
01:47:02,120 --> 01:46:59,610
is a hill you see something going up

2616
01:47:04,100 --> 01:47:02,130
but you do not see the pattern if you

2617
01:47:06,500 --> 01:47:04,110
want to see the entire pattern you do

2618
01:47:08,930 --> 01:47:06,510
have to fly now there are some

2619
01:47:12,590 --> 01:47:08,940
scientists I forgot his name I think he

2620
01:47:15,740 --> 01:47:12,600
was some some scientist with UCLA many

2621
01:47:18,709 --> 01:47:15,750
years ago he had an in interpretation

2622
01:47:22,010 --> 01:47:18,719
that yes these people were able to fly

2623
01:47:23,780 --> 01:47:22,020
the kite by day no well the Chi one that

2624
01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:23,790
was Woodman Jim Woodman with the balloon

2625
01:47:27,859 --> 01:47:26,010
I don't I don't buy that one even though

2626
01:47:30,109 --> 01:47:27,869
technically he proves that they could

2627
01:47:32,479 --> 01:47:30,119
have done it but there's no other lore

2628
01:47:35,570 --> 01:47:32,489
about balloons if they had balloons well

2629
01:47:38,390 --> 01:47:35,580
the guys the guys would actually be

2630
01:47:42,080 --> 01:47:38,400
flown as a passenger on a kite that was

2631
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:42,090
another theory they've found burials I

2632
01:47:46,370 --> 01:47:43,530
think it's more likely that they were

2633
01:47:48,050 --> 01:47:46,380
able to fly out of the body because they

2634
01:47:51,080 --> 01:47:48,060
a lot of those cultures have a heavy

2635
01:47:53,990 --> 01:47:51,090
shamanistic tradition and they also have

2636
01:47:55,430 --> 01:47:54,000
the use of hallucinogenic drugs P Orion

2637
01:47:59,450 --> 01:47:55,440
the mushrooms and all this kind of stuff

2638
01:48:01,850 --> 01:47:59,460
ayahuasca and obviously people that have

2639
01:48:03,709 --> 01:48:01,860
studied these things when you go into an

2640
01:48:05,450 --> 01:48:03,719
austere state you can't go out of your

2641
01:48:07,070 --> 01:48:05,460
body and then you could solve any of you

2642
01:48:09,260 --> 01:48:07,080
they went out of their body then they

2643
01:48:12,109 --> 01:48:09,270
could appreciate and maybe follow the

2644
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:12,119
patterns of these Nazca lines the most

2645
01:48:16,669 --> 01:48:14,730
of the original trajectory was by Maria

2646
01:48:19,160 --> 01:48:16,679
right here you know the the german-born

2647
01:48:21,709 --> 01:48:19,170
will became a Peruvian citizen after

2648
01:48:23,930 --> 01:48:21,719
she'd seen see her whole mission in life

2649
01:48:25,220 --> 01:48:23,940
was to save the lines and she did

2650
01:48:27,260 --> 01:48:25,230
prevent them you know they were gonna do

2651
01:48:29,149 --> 01:48:27,270
the pan-american highway and just

2652
01:48:32,450 --> 01:48:29,159
destroy the lines and she created such a

2653
01:48:34,120 --> 01:48:32,460
fuss that they diverted the highway but

2654
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:34,130
she thought it was some kind of

2655
01:48:39,830 --> 01:48:37,170
astronomical calendar astronomical map

2656
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:39,840
but that doesn't seem most most scholars

2657
01:48:43,970 --> 01:48:41,610
and archaeologists these days stone

2658
01:48:46,910 --> 01:48:43,980
don't believe in it the more prevalent

2659
01:48:50,149 --> 01:48:46,920
theory now is it has something to do

2660
01:48:53,120 --> 01:48:50,159
with water finding water under under

2661
01:48:54,830 --> 01:48:53,130
water streams but you know they keep

2662
01:48:56,359 --> 01:48:54,840
changing yeah obviously the fact that

2663
01:48:57,890 --> 01:48:56,369
they keep coming up with theories is

2664
01:48:59,689 --> 01:48:57,900
that they haven't discovered what the

2665
01:49:01,459 --> 01:48:59,699
true purpose was they don't want then

2666
01:49:03,410 --> 01:49:01,469
might be et now and are those still

2667
01:49:05,149 --> 01:49:03,420
there the Nazca lines oh yeah of course

2668
01:49:06,350 --> 01:49:05,159
of course all right yeah and they are

2669
01:49:08,659 --> 01:49:06,360
not adjusting

2670
01:49:11,149 --> 01:49:08,669
if you go further you across the border

2671
01:49:14,689 --> 01:49:11,159
into Chile you find them in northern

2672
01:49:16,129 --> 01:49:14,699
Chile - around the city : Rica which is

2673
01:49:19,459 --> 01:49:16,139
right on the border of Chile and Peru

2674
01:49:22,069 --> 01:49:19,469
and if you still go further down and

2675
01:49:24,080 --> 01:49:22,079
there was a wonderful episode in one of

2676
01:49:26,750 --> 01:49:24,090
the shows of are thirsty clark's

2677
01:49:29,239 --> 01:49:26,760
mysterious world where they showed what

2678
01:49:32,270 --> 01:49:29,249
is known as the Atacama giant and this

2679
01:49:34,790 --> 01:49:32,280
is a figure that is on a on a on a hill

2680
01:49:38,600 --> 01:49:34,800
in the Atacama Desert which is a very

2681
01:49:40,549 --> 01:49:38,610
very dry area again if you are seeing it

2682
01:49:43,939 --> 01:49:40,559
from the ground you would see like two

2683
01:49:45,979 --> 01:49:43,949
avenues that go up basically what you're

2684
01:49:48,259 --> 01:49:45,989
seeing is the the legs the thighs

2685
01:49:51,049 --> 01:49:48,269
actually of the giant gym would one

2686
01:49:53,060 --> 01:49:51,059
who's this Explorer who is the one that

2687
01:49:56,509 --> 01:49:53,070
has done the most research on this had a

2688
01:49:59,959 --> 01:49:56,519
chart where he showed that the Atacama

2689
01:50:02,959 --> 01:49:59,969
giant was so huge that the Empire State

2690
01:50:05,089 --> 01:50:02,969
Building will only reach the thigh of

2691
01:50:07,189 --> 01:50:05,099
the Atacama giant that's how big the

2692
01:50:09,679 --> 01:50:07,199
same was but of course it's it's a glyph

2693
01:50:12,169 --> 01:50:09,689
you know it's it's not a sculpture it's

2694
01:50:13,939 --> 01:50:12,179
on in fact like the Nazca lines kids on

2695
01:50:16,310 --> 01:50:13,949
their Mountain they call them geoglyphs

2696
01:50:18,770 --> 01:50:16,320
what was there any kind of looks like

2697
01:50:21,859 --> 01:50:18,780
robotic it has like a strange face and

2698
01:50:24,259 --> 01:50:21,869
it's holding like like a dead lizard or

2699
01:50:26,209 --> 01:50:24,269
something and again you have to fly in a

2700
01:50:28,850 --> 01:50:26,219
helicopter in order to really appreciate

2701
01:50:30,859 --> 01:50:28,860
it now you've explored this stuff for 35

2702
01:50:33,709 --> 01:50:30,869
years or so good portion of your life

2703
01:50:34,790 --> 01:50:33,719
have you ever seen anything yourself and

2704
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:34,800
tell me Oh hernias

2705
01:50:39,890 --> 01:50:37,530
that's strange unusual well I have seen

2706
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:39,900
UFOs but nothing like a spectacular I

2707
01:50:46,850 --> 01:50:43,050
had a couple of sightings over the years

2708
01:50:49,759 --> 01:50:46,860
in fact I even saw UFO about a month ago

2709
01:50:51,979 --> 01:50:49,769
in Mexico City at the big symposium and

2710
01:50:54,290 --> 01:50:51,989
the world view of a summit that kinda

2711
01:50:55,790 --> 01:50:54,300
mount Sun put and believe me if I had

2712
01:50:57,560 --> 01:50:55,800
read about it I probably would have

2713
01:50:59,810 --> 01:50:57,570
believed it but I saw with my own eyes

2714
01:51:02,839 --> 01:50:59,820
everybody says you see a lot of UFOs in

2715
01:51:05,120 --> 01:51:02,849
Mexico well I did of course it might

2716
01:51:08,029 --> 01:51:05,130
have been a balloon I cannot say for

2717
01:51:10,339 --> 01:51:08,039
sure but what happened inside as I was

2718
01:51:12,439 --> 01:51:10,349
walking towards the World Trade Center

2719
01:51:14,569 --> 01:51:12,449
which is where this very large symposium

2720
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:14,579
was was held and we do have them by the

2721
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:17,010
way on the website - on the open minds

2722
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:18,410
talk TV we have it sure

2723
01:51:23,080 --> 01:51:20,330
article with the pictures that were

2724
01:51:26,410 --> 01:51:23,090
taken by this Italian contactee known as

2725
01:51:28,360 --> 01:51:26,420
colantonio Lucy and so as I walk in

2726
01:51:30,280 --> 01:51:28,370
between the hotel in the conference hall

2727
01:51:32,950 --> 01:51:30,290
I see all these people there you know

2728
01:51:34,750 --> 01:51:32,960
and with cameras and stuff so I asked

2729
01:51:36,220 --> 01:51:34,760
them and sure enough that was worth

2730
01:51:37,780 --> 01:51:36,230
seeing some of these other people and

2731
01:51:39,430 --> 01:51:37,790
they were seeing this you know following

2732
01:51:41,650 --> 01:51:39,440
munition initially I couldn't see

2733
01:51:44,290 --> 01:51:41,660
anything it was daytime eventually yes I

2734
01:51:46,540 --> 01:51:44,300
saw this little white dot very high in

2735
01:51:49,150 --> 01:51:46,550
the sky so that was that that was that

2736
01:51:50,680 --> 01:51:49,160
was interesting but not you know I mean

2737
01:51:53,650 --> 01:51:50,690
it really didn't do anything he was just

2738
01:51:56,820 --> 01:51:53,660
sitting there but many many years ago in

2739
01:51:59,410 --> 01:51:56,830
Chile in the mountains near Santiago

2740
01:52:02,650 --> 01:51:59,420
that was a more interesting sighting in

2741
01:52:04,870 --> 01:52:02,660
terms of what the UFO did and basically

2742
01:52:06,610 --> 01:52:04,880
again I went with some people there and

2743
01:52:08,380 --> 01:52:06,620
there was a contact II also who said

2744
01:52:10,930 --> 01:52:08,390
that they were going to see UFOs and

2745
01:52:12,430 --> 01:52:10,940
sure enough we did and there were other

2746
01:52:14,950 --> 01:52:12,440
people and we had binoculars and

2747
01:52:17,380 --> 01:52:14,960
everything and basically what I saw was

2748
01:52:19,840 --> 01:52:17,390
an object I could never say that it was

2749
01:52:21,400 --> 01:52:19,850
artificial I don't know what it was I

2750
01:52:23,800 --> 01:52:21,410
mean didn't I didn't see a machine I

2751
01:52:26,050 --> 01:52:23,810
just saw a thing that looked like a star

2752
01:52:28,900 --> 01:52:26,060
had the you know it's just like a point

2753
01:52:31,450 --> 01:52:28,910
of light it looked like a star I had the

2754
01:52:33,670 --> 01:52:31,460
luminosity of the star but it sure it

2755
01:52:35,650 --> 01:52:33,680
didn't move like a star he was doing

2756
01:52:38,290 --> 01:52:35,660
like this you know going in zigzag and

2757
01:52:40,690 --> 01:52:38,300
stopping and going around in circles and

2758
01:52:42,340 --> 01:52:40,700
there was no optical illusion no no no

2759
01:52:44,050 --> 01:52:42,350
because I was with other people we are

2760
01:52:45,430 --> 01:52:44,060
saw with binoculars they gave me the

2761
01:52:47,740 --> 01:52:45,440
binoculars I'm sorry I didn't

2762
01:52:50,830 --> 01:52:47,750
photographed it you know it's not easy

2763
01:52:52,540 --> 01:52:50,840
to photograph these things I even saw

2764
01:52:54,700 --> 01:52:52,550
experience that firsthand in Mexico

2765
01:52:56,320 --> 01:52:54,710
unless the thing is very close of course

2766
01:52:58,210 --> 01:52:56,330
and then you have it you can see it on

2767
01:53:00,130 --> 01:52:58,220
your digital camera if you just see a

2768
01:53:02,170 --> 01:53:00,140
little point in the middle of the sky it

2769
01:53:04,480 --> 01:53:02,180
really takes a lot of training to point

2770
01:53:06,220 --> 01:53:04,490
and to manage - well Kris is probably

2771
01:53:08,440 --> 01:53:06,230
more experienced here you can probably

2772
01:53:11,080 --> 01:53:08,450
add something yeah it's you know people

2773
01:53:14,170 --> 01:53:11,090
often ask me well why don't we have any

2774
01:53:17,020 --> 01:53:14,180
more pictures of UFOs because oftentimes

2775
01:53:18,700 --> 01:53:17,030
people are so mesmerized by deciding

2776
01:53:20,440 --> 01:53:18,710
they just forget that they have a

2777
01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:20,450
cellphone with a camera they forget they

2778
01:53:24,480 --> 01:53:22,210
have a camera right and

2779
01:53:27,450 --> 01:53:24,490
other times people just don't have the

2780
01:53:30,600 --> 01:53:27,460
like you said the training they don't it

2781
01:53:32,610 --> 01:53:30,610
actually takes training yeah and you

2782
01:53:34,350 --> 01:53:32,620
know I think we're gonna see this slowly

2783
01:53:36,440 --> 01:53:34,360
change and I think we're already seeing

2784
01:53:39,300 --> 01:53:36,450
a change we're seeing more and more

2785
01:53:41,580 --> 01:53:39,310
supposed photographic evidence right oh

2786
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:41,590
yeah the internet is full of them right

2787
01:53:48,570 --> 01:53:45,010
now media doesn't mean that certainly

2788
01:53:50,820 --> 01:53:48,580
there's no shortage so I then I had a

2789
01:53:52,590 --> 01:53:50,830
couple of other but none of my sightings

2790
01:53:54,630 --> 01:53:52,600
have been spectacular the more

2791
01:53:58,830 --> 01:53:54,640
interesting would be the one in Chile in

2792
01:54:01,350 --> 01:53:58,840
88 because the the behavior of the UFO

2793
01:54:04,170 --> 01:54:01,360
was so strange and it was nothing I

2794
01:54:05,970 --> 01:54:04,180
could ever explain it did not seem at

2795
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:05,980
all like the certainly was not a natural

2796
01:54:10,260 --> 01:54:07,810
phenomena natural phenomena would not do

2797
01:54:12,570 --> 01:54:10,270
those things but I never saw its

2798
01:54:14,700 --> 01:54:12,580
structure craft either so I cannot say I

2799
01:54:18,150 --> 01:54:14,710
saw a spaceship or anything like that I

2800
01:54:20,160 --> 01:54:18,160
just explained like behaving extremely

2801
01:54:22,860 --> 01:54:20,170
weird a hundred thousand one stories

2802
01:54:25,050 --> 01:54:22,870
you've reported some of them on the show

2803
01:54:27,690 --> 01:54:25,060
do you think there can ever be a

2804
01:54:30,120 --> 01:54:27,700
disclosure is there anything that anyone

2805
01:54:32,790 --> 01:54:30,130
can disclose do we know anything we have

2806
01:54:35,940 --> 01:54:32,800
tons of data because especially what's

2807
01:54:38,820 --> 01:54:35,950
changed a lot gene you've been long

2808
01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:38,830
enough in this as I have that in the

2809
01:54:44,130 --> 01:54:41,890
past it was very hard to get stuff from

2810
01:54:46,440 --> 01:54:44,140
around the world unless you travel there

2811
01:54:48,090 --> 01:54:46,450
in some countries were off limits you

2812
01:54:50,220 --> 01:54:48,100
were not gonna get stuff in the Soviet

2813
01:54:52,320 --> 01:54:50,230
you know once in a while some report was

2814
01:54:54,720 --> 01:54:52,330
published by Sputnik magazine or

2815
01:54:57,060 --> 01:54:54,730
something but now with the internet

2816
01:54:59,400 --> 01:54:57,070
everything happens instantly they see a

2817
01:55:01,950 --> 01:54:59,410
UFO on Pakistan you are reading it

2818
01:55:04,470 --> 01:55:01,960
within two hours so we have a lot of

2819
01:55:06,210 --> 01:55:04,480
data of course a lot of it has to be

2820
01:55:10,140 --> 01:55:06,220
filtered do we have a final

2821
01:55:12,210 --> 01:55:10,150
comprehensive explanation no but the

2822
01:55:13,860 --> 01:55:12,220
more data we gather maybe we will

2823
01:55:15,360 --> 01:55:13,870
eventually come up with something so

2824
01:55:17,700 --> 01:55:15,370
basically the government's don't have

2825
01:55:20,220 --> 01:55:17,710
any information that's the other theory

2826
01:55:21,900 --> 01:55:20,230
you know the Hynek even they're late dr.

2827
01:55:23,700 --> 01:55:21,910
Hynek you know who worked for Blue Book

2828
01:55:25,890 --> 01:55:23,710
and all that he always used to say that

2829
01:55:28,020 --> 01:55:25,900
the cover-up they said there is a

2830
01:55:30,210 --> 01:55:28,030
cover-up the the cover-up is a cover-up

2831
01:55:32,860 --> 01:55:30,220
of ignorance they don't have the answers

2832
01:55:34,720 --> 01:55:32,870
and they're supposed to be like dad Ian

2833
01:55:36,310 --> 01:55:34,730
there's a US government you know they're

2834
01:55:37,630 --> 01:55:36,320
supposed to know what happened well

2835
01:55:40,210 --> 01:55:37,640
that's the problem - you see nowadays

2836
01:55:41,680 --> 01:55:40,220
nobody believes what the government says

2837
01:55:44,410 --> 01:55:41,690
right yeah we want the government to

2838
01:55:46,240 --> 01:55:44,420
tell us what they know about UFOs yeah I

2839
01:55:49,510 --> 01:55:46,250
know if the government come tomorrow

2840
01:55:50,710 --> 01:55:49,520
came and said you know half of the

2841
01:55:52,870 --> 01:55:50,720
people would probably don't believe it

2842
01:55:54,700 --> 01:55:52,880
they say oh they're just the inventing

2843
01:55:57,730 --> 01:55:54,710
this to cover up something else you know

2844
01:55:59,290 --> 01:55:57,740
so I don't know but well they don't know

2845
01:56:00,730 --> 01:55:59,300
what they're doing in fact I can and

2846
01:56:03,490 --> 01:56:00,740
well believe they'd recover advanced

2847
01:56:05,620 --> 01:56:03,500
technology and stick it in warehouse 13

2848
01:56:07,240 --> 01:56:05,630
somewhere yes I believe they probably

2849
01:56:09,850 --> 01:56:07,250
have some stuff I don't think they have

2850
01:56:12,070 --> 01:56:09,860
as much as all these fantastic UFOs or

2851
01:56:14,170 --> 01:56:12,080
whatever that they probably do have

2852
01:56:16,180 --> 01:56:14,180
artifacts I would think they do have

2853
01:56:17,980 --> 01:56:16,190
something but they don't have it they

2854
01:56:20,260 --> 01:56:17,990
don't seem to have a final answer all

2855
01:56:22,180 --> 01:56:20,270
the other interpretation is that they

2856
01:56:24,370 --> 01:56:22,190
know their truth and the truth is so

2857
01:56:26,500 --> 01:56:24,380
horrible as hair covering up for our own

2858
01:56:28,090 --> 01:56:26,510
good because it would be panic or

2859
01:56:30,850 --> 01:56:28,100
whatever everybody but governments are

2860
01:56:33,370 --> 01:56:30,860
not that competent government by nature

2861
01:56:34,690 --> 01:56:33,380
is incompetent it only reacts to

2862
01:56:36,610 --> 01:56:34,700
emergencies doesn't anticipate

2863
01:56:38,290 --> 01:56:36,620
emergencies how could they do anything

2864
01:56:41,230 --> 01:56:38,300
like that how could they possibly have a

2865
01:56:43,630 --> 01:56:41,240
long-range plan that last decade after

2866
01:56:45,490 --> 01:56:43,640
decade you know I just can't be made to

2867
01:56:47,200 --> 01:56:45,500
believe but I think they have a heck of

2868
01:56:49,870 --> 01:56:47,210
a lot more data than they admit that's

2869
01:56:51,400 --> 01:56:49,880
why they're a lot more confusing data I

2870
01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:51,410
think they're way more confronting I

2871
01:56:55,990 --> 01:56:53,810
mean it's not days it's not even

2872
01:56:58,150 --> 01:56:56,000
debatable I mean we know for a fact it's

2873
01:57:01,210 --> 01:56:58,160
historically proven that the government

2874
01:57:03,580 --> 01:57:01,220
has investigated UFOs for decades even

2875
01:57:05,590 --> 01:57:03,590
at one time even officially you know I

2876
01:57:07,270 --> 01:57:05,600
mean publicly officially and not just

2877
01:57:10,060 --> 01:57:07,280
the US government the Russians have done

2878
01:57:12,160 --> 01:57:10,070
it the French do it the English and so

2879
01:57:15,790 --> 01:57:12,170
on so a lot of these countries have

2880
01:57:18,160 --> 01:57:15,800
files X so called x-files the words all

2881
01:57:20,110 --> 01:57:18,170
that camera the gun camera footage yeah

2882
01:57:23,020 --> 01:57:20,120
you know they've got tons of that yeah

2883
01:57:24,760 --> 01:57:23,030
because you you hear reports of many

2884
01:57:26,860 --> 01:57:24,770
witnesses you know that where that went

2885
01:57:28,600 --> 01:57:26,870
on scramble missions and yeah they would

2886
01:57:30,820 --> 01:57:28,610
have to have some gun camera that's how

2887
01:57:32,350 --> 01:57:30,830
you assess you know your potential enemy

2888
01:57:34,930 --> 01:57:32,360
where do we find more information about

2889
01:57:37,420 --> 01:57:34,940
open minds magazine which is apparently

2890
01:57:39,610 --> 01:57:37,430
now available on the newsstands in open

2891
01:57:42,310 --> 01:57:39,620
mind star TV just it's a very simple

2892
01:57:44,080 --> 01:57:42,320
address open minds dot TV you can you

2893
01:57:45,530 --> 01:57:44,090
can subscribe to the magazine you can

2894
01:57:47,210 --> 01:57:45,540
read my stories

2895
01:57:48,860 --> 01:57:47,220
you can read the stories that my

2896
01:57:51,800 --> 01:57:48,870
colleagues are doing my research by that

2897
01:57:53,960 --> 01:57:51,810
time Alejandro rockers we also have

2898
01:57:55,970 --> 01:57:53,970
guests you know writers so it's like

2899
01:57:57,740 --> 01:57:55,980
other people that are not employees of

2900
01:58:01,130 --> 01:57:57,750
our company they write they publish

2901
01:58:03,290 --> 01:58:01,140
there as well so we basically through

2902
01:58:05,240 --> 01:58:03,300
the website or go to Barnes & Nobles go

2903
01:58:06,440 --> 01:58:05,250
to borders and I think you will be

2904
01:58:09,080 --> 01:58:06,450
pleased it's a beautiful-looking

2905
01:58:11,270 --> 01:58:09,090
magazine and it's got great stories is

2906
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:11,280
it all UFOs or what basically it's all

2907
01:58:14,780 --> 01:58:13,530
UFOs it's not like faith it's not a

2908
01:58:17,960 --> 01:58:14,790
paranormal magazine

2909
01:58:20,210 --> 01:58:17,970
it's basically a UFO magazine but you

2910
01:58:22,550 --> 01:58:20,220
don't take an editorial position no no

2911
01:58:25,010 --> 01:58:22,560
we have a mission statement in in our

2912
01:58:26,630 --> 01:58:25,020
position is basically let's go after it

2913
01:58:28,820 --> 01:58:26,640
you know let's let's find the evidence

2914
01:58:32,300 --> 01:58:28,830
you don't know what's happening at is

2915
01:58:35,570 --> 01:58:32,310
sure to find out ok we're not promoting

2916
01:58:37,460 --> 01:58:35,580
any way any given view that aliens and

2917
01:58:39,410 --> 01:58:37,470
wonderful and then I come to save us

2918
01:58:42,260 --> 01:58:39,420
so aliens are horrible and gonna enslave

2919
01:58:43,720 --> 01:58:42,270
us no I mean we may allude to some of

2920
01:58:47,090 --> 01:58:43,730
these things in a given article

2921
01:58:49,940 --> 01:58:47,100
depending on the story but our editorial

2922
01:58:51,710 --> 01:58:49,950
position is neutral pressure Brian word

2923
01:58:55,010 --> 01:58:51,720
we find more of the things that you do

2924
01:58:58,940 --> 01:58:55,020
well gene our para cast listeners can go

2925
01:59:01,550 --> 01:58:58,950
to our strange planet calm my entire

2926
01:59:03,680 --> 01:59:01,560
database from my years in the San Luis

2927
01:59:06,320 --> 01:59:03,690
Valley is located there and also

2928
01:59:08,480 --> 01:59:06,330
information about my my books my latest

2929
01:59:11,810 --> 01:59:08,490
book is stalking the trickster and no

2930
01:59:15,200 --> 01:59:11,820
more trickster imitations please Oh gene

2931
01:59:17,240 --> 01:59:15,210
come on just one more time all right one

2932
01:59:19,010 --> 01:59:17,250
more time before we go know if you ever

2933
01:59:24,410 --> 01:59:19,020
have the author of the trickster Henson

2934
01:59:26,780 --> 01:59:24,420
George Hansen no and tell me all her

2935
01:59:28,310 --> 01:59:26,790
næss thanks for joining us this week on

2936
01:59:30,410 --> 01:59:28,320
the power cast pleasure

2937
01:59:31,400 --> 01:59:30,420
good seeing you after what twenty years

2938
01:59:33,860 --> 01:59:31,410
something like that

2939
01:59:35,390 --> 01:59:33,870
fifteen years whatever Kurt so Brian

2940
01:59:40,129 --> 01:59:35,400
we'll see you soon thanks gene

2941
01:59:46,079 --> 01:59:43,290
perhaps remote standard of power over

2942
01:59:49,439 --> 01:59:46,089
Yelp is operating in fascination are

2943
01:59:52,920 --> 01:59:49,449
making the impossible tune in next week